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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2006-03-08-10:00AM-WORKSHOP5. BRAZOS COUNTY ` BRYAN,TEXAS NOTICE OF MEETING BRAZOS COUNTY COMISSIONERS COURT WORKSHOP SESSION THE COMMISSIONERS COURT WILL MEET IN A WORKSHOP SESSION ON WEDNESDAY 8 MARCH 2006 AT 10:00 A.M. IN ROOM 108 OF THE BRAZOS COUNTY COURTHOUSE, 300 EAST 26TH STREET, BRYAN, TEXAS. 1. Call to Order 2. Consideration of the proposed Compliance Plan for Brazos County collections, as mandated by Senate Bill 1863. 3. Adjourn The Brazos County Courthouse is wheelchair accessible. Handicap parking spaces are available. Any request for sign interpretive services must be made two business days before the meeting. To make arrangements, call (979) 361-4102. Office of the County Judge • 300 East 2dh St. • . Suite 114 . Bryan, Texas 77803 . Fax: (979) 3614503 1100 9 PAGE (~°Z COMMISSIONERS' COURT WORKSHOP SESSION MARCH 8, 2006 The Commissioners' Court of Brazos County, Texas met in a Workshop Session in the Commissioners' Courtroom in the Courthouse in Bryan, Brazos County, Texas, beginning at 10:00 a.m. on Tuesday, March 8, 2006, with the following members of the Court present: Randy Sims, County Judge, Presiding; Lloyd Wassermann, Commissioner of Precinct 1; Duane Peters, Commissioner of Precinct 2; Kenny Mallard, Commissioner of Precinct 3; Carey Cauley, Jr., Commissioner of Precinct 4; Karen McQueen, County Clerk, Absent. Attached is a list of the citizens and officials in attendance. Attached is a transcript of the meeting. Vol ~ g Page 63 I of 25 BRAZOS COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT Collections Compliance Plan Workshop March 8, 2006 Sims: I will call Commissioners Court work meeting workshop into session Wednesday The 8thh of March 2006 at a little after 10:00 o'clock which is 10:09 a.m., in room 108 of the Brazos County Courthouse. I will call this meeting to order; workshop to order. The second item on the agenda is to consider the proposed compliance plan for Brazos County Collections as mandated by Senate Bill 1863. Russ Duncan, thank you for coming with OCA and Marc, thank you for hustling back. Hamlin: Yes sir. Sims: Of course, you are a prime player in this thing. I'm sorry Arlene could not make it but she and I had a very good visit the other day and she has written me a letter; have you had an opportunity to see that Marc? Hamlin: Yes sir. Sims: Ok. And she points out some things that I do agree with and that we've got to be very careful with. With that in mind, let me say my idea of this is to have Marc be the collection agent for the county basically for fines, fees, court costs, and even probation fees. I think the most important part about this according to Arlene is the record keeping in Marc's office to make sure that we are proceeding on and getting all that is due to us. I will address the adult probation first because I'm.'..Judge Smith, I'm going to say this to you; I think it should be split according to the percentage in which it's owed. I don't think restitution should come right off the top. That's my thought process. I understand that we should paying restitution from these fees that are paid over at Arlene's, or we have been, but it looks like to me that we're paying an inordinate share of the restitution to begin with and the state and the county are not getting a percentage that is due us out of whatever that person is paying when they come over to the Adult Probation Department. I think Arlene agreed with that, she like that idea and said that it makes sense because it is...let's face it; we've got bills to pay, the state has got bills to pay and I think, certainly, the person that this crime was perpetrated against needs to get something out of it, that's for sure. Hamlin: Oh yeah. We can have philosophical disagreement on that. I believe that primarily the state is a victim but the victim is the primary victim and if you Vol _78- Page &4 Collections Compliance Plan Workshop 3/8/06 2 of 25 choose to do that then the victims will know that you've chosen to do that and that's fine. Sims: Ok, that's fine I just think that it should be on a percentage basis. Hamlin: Well, yeah, fundamentally we have to agree to it because it is a separation of powers and I don't think there will be a problem with that. I can't tell you that there won't be a problem with that, I have spoken directly with Judge Davis or Judge Langley and, of course, I can't speak for the CCL judges because that is totally separate issue, their cases are their cases. If Arlene was comfortable with that, I think probably we would be comfortable with that as well. Sims: Ok. Thank you. Hamlin: Once again, just to point out... Sims: I understand. Hamlin: ...separate the powers. Sims: I got ya. I got ya. Hamlin: Judge, just for your information, for the judges information, I'm sure he probably has a copy of Opinion Number GA-0147 and it is just an attorney general's opinion that specifically states that, `a county must outtake money received from a defendant first to pay court cost and then to pay a fine.' It addresses the issue, as well, of the restitution. So I'm sure the judge will want a copy of this whenever they are making a decision and regardless of how... Sims: I would like to have a copy of that too. Hamlin: Ok. Regardless of how the Commissioner's Court, the judges, whomever, decides that they want to go with then we are ok with it; that's not our decision. We don't have the power, the law does not allow us to have the power so that's under yall's bailiwick and we'll be glad to do whatever you'd like to do. Sims: Ok. I think we set this meeting up to get comments from other departments if you will. I'm sorry, I know that all the JPs were invited; is that not correct? Hamlin: Yes sir. Sims: Ok. But to get comments and ask questions having to do with you about what you see the collection process is going to be. Vol -7 y Page (0S Collections Compliance Plan Workshop 3/8/06 Hamlin: Ok. 3 of 25 Sims: As you know, we've got satellite offices out here; as to the JPs, what information that they need to take from the defendant out there for you and are they going to send them down to your place? Come down to the courthouse to take care of the payment schedule and the setting up of that and this type of thing. Would you explain a little bit of that to me please? Hamlin: Do you want to go with the JPs first or do you want to stay with Arlene and... Sims: No, let's go in with the JPs. Is that ok? And then we'll go with Arlene. Hamlin: The counties that we have tried to approach while trying not to reinvent the wheel are Victoria and Tyler. Both have a situation that I think is very simple. It is where a defendant goes to a JP's office and is adjudicated. That means he has a final judgment, the judge has said he is nolo contendere or whatever, guilty or whatever and the judge has a final judgment and says ...we've agreed but I don't have any money ...the judge says... and this is a tool that can be used, we keep going back to our toolbox of using tools and this is a tool that we can use...and says, "Ok, Commissioner Wassermann, you don't have any money today but we'll give you five days to come to the courthouse, you'll have to report to the courthouse, you are going to have to fill out a lengthy application..." and basically that's what it is, application for credit, "...and you're going to have to give all this information. You're obligated to pay so much every so many weeks or months." And then what happens, Judge and Commissioner's Court, is that these people really ...you can give them ten days and it gives them a few more days to come up with a lump sum. Sims: Pay it totally off. Hamlin: So they don't have to deal with going over a weekly or biweekly or monthly payment plan. So that is a tool that is a good inconvenience; you look at inconvenience, you already have the defendant there, right, but this is a tool that will probably inconvenience numerous ones and encourage them on their own accord to go back to the JP and pay it off. Now the good thing that we have in these other counties is; if you'll remember when Jim Lehman was here, when he was with Tarrant County he said, "I was in the collections program and I never touched a dollar." Remember that? Sims: Yeah. Hamlin: He said he never touched a dime, never collected a dime. What we're proposing at this point and we feel like it is best for Brazos County is that the JP's offices continue to bring the money in and receipt the money. We will Vol 9 Page (non Collections Compliance Plan Workshop 3/8/06 4 of 25 be the ones that will be in charge of collection plans only. They will still make their payments there for the collections program, they will stay make their payments in full or partial payments and we will just be the ones that are monitoring them on a daily, weekly, biweekly, or monthly basis to insure that they are in compliance with their requirements that has been set forth by the judgment. Now what that does is it relives each of the JPs of the obligation of going through all of the formality and all of the interviews and all of the tracking. That is what 1863 pretty much stipulates. We can do it for either way but what I'm trying to do is to realistically mold this where it fits best in Brazos County to where it doesn't overburden the JPs too much to a point that they would require any additional personnel. But I'm also realizing that we can do this and comply with House Bill 1863 as well. They would continue doing what they are presently doing except that this new 1863 obligation would be our obligation and we would be in compliance with state law. Sims: Ok. Let me back up just a minute here. You said the JP would bring the money in and get it received? Hamlin: Yes sir. Sims: At your office. Hamlin: No, at their office. Sims: Ok. At their office. Duncan: If they make full payments. Hamlin: Even if they make partial payments. All of those would be continually, just like they are now, they would continually; that money flow would still be coming into the JP's office. Sims: Ok. Now how does it get on your records? Hamlin: We're all going to be operator off of the same record. Sims: Ok. All right. Hamlin: If the JPs say, "Look we'll give you our system if you will..." and they are going to be relying on our information, wholeheartedly to say, "Have you contacted this defendant? Did they report when they were supposed to within the five or ten days? Have they complied? Are they in compliance today? Are they behind? Do we need to issue a warrant?" It's going to be more of a work hand in hand with the JPs but what it does; it relieves them of the obligation of 1863. It puts the obligation on the county. It also, Commissioners and 7 Vol 7 g Page J Collections Compliance Plan Workshop 3/8/06 5 of 25 Judge, heightens the awareness of what we're currently doing. It heightens the awareness of who is on a payment plan, how much time they have on a payment plan, where they are located, who was the last known relative at the time, and cell phone numbers. This is not the current process we have in Brazos County. Sims: Ok. Let me take it from here. Excuse me, folks, I'm trying to learn this system also. If they can not pay in full, ok? Hamlin: Yes sir. Sims: And the JP says, "We need to set up a schedule of payments of for you. " Ok? Hamlin: Yes sir. Sims: Now then, they will get an initial address, name; do we ask for their work place on anything like that? Hamlin: Well we have a copy of Sims: Well anyway let me go on through this. So then they send them down to you? Hamlin: Yes. Sims: For a full fledged form that they must fill out, is that correct? Hamlin: Yes sir. I've got the form if you want it. Sims: Yes, please. Mallard: Do you think we're going to have a problem with difficulty for them to come from remote office, down to the courthouse, some through security, come upstairs, is there some other mechanism where we can make this application process work a little better or easier? Hamlin: We hope that this is the case. We hope that it is exactly what you outlined. We hope that it is hard, that it is cumbersome, we hope that it is inconvenient, we hope that it is everything that you have said because it will hopefully prompt them to go ahead and pay and get it over with. They don't want to deal with that. They don't want to deal with having to go to the courthouse. They don't want to have to deal with people calling them. They don't want to have to deal with having... again I'm going off of what we have learned in the past. I'm talking about information that we have gathered from other counties. This again, as I outline, is a tool so that it would be an inconvenience for these people and they can say, "Look, I was going to go Vol 7 K Page ~ Collections Compliance Plan Workshop 3/8/06 6 of 25 ahead and buy that TV, I was going to put a down payment on it, I was going to do this, I was going to do that, but I'm just going to pay this off. This is way too much trouble." Duncan: This is being very effective in Bexar County, San Antonio. As you are well aware, going to downtown San Antonio is no fun and they've got some very far out satellite JPs and they are using a form that says, `You are to report within five days to the collections office, downtown.' What they are finding is that somewhere around eighty percent of the people as you'll see here, were given a date of the eleventh and they paid it on the ninth. People paying off early simply because they don't want to go to downtown San Antonio. What it does is it give them five days or ten days or whatever you choose to come up with the money and allows them to make the payment at the JP's office... Sims: In full. Duncan: ...in full and get out of the system is what it does. Really the issue here is that you want to get them out of the system. Sims: Right. Duncan: And that's the whole goal. Sims: Whoever you pay, get them out of the system. Duncan: Right. Get them out of the system. Let me refer to it this way; there is a constitutional right to have a payment plan. There is no constitutional right for it to be easy. Mallard: A lot of folks that I've run into that end up getting arrested, they are out and they are gone. If you make it difficult then like you said, then they're just not going to do anything but you're not finding that to be the case? Duncan: We're not finding that to be the fact yet we are losing some, some fall between the cracks. Mallard: Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Duncan: Some do fall between the cracks but that's that ten percent that are going to fall between the cracks anyway. Mallard: Even if they are on a payment plan? Duncan: Even if they are on a payment plan, you are going to have that but the whole idea here is that its centralization source. When you have a centralization Vol Page (99 Collections Compliance Plan Workshop 3/8/06 7 of 25 place, they see everybody that comes through so that if they owe money someplace else, they know it. Whereas decentralization may not necessarily know that. The whole idea of this is that they get the judgment; nothing can be done until adjudication, it doesn't kick in, then at adjudication if they can't pay in full they are generally referred to an alternative source to go make payment arrangements and they are given a reasonable amount of time to do that. When they report, it's entered into the notes on the system so that everybody knows what's been done and it moves on from there. It's very simple and it works. Sims: Russ, what would you recommend as the time frame? Five days, ten days, what? Duncan: That is really your call. Five to ten days would be within a reasonable amount of time. What you're trying to do is say to them, "Ok, you didn't pay today, I'm going to give you a reasonable amount of time to report downtown and maybe you can come up with the money." That's kind of a secondary thing. But you make it as short as you want. I just recommend five day to ten days and that's really up to what you're office decides. Sims: Ok. I understand that's our choice. I understand that. Duncan: And the other reason that you are having them pay in the JP precincts, if I may recommend this; that's where most people live or work and if you let them pay it in the precinct, the JP is involved in the payment and the money is funded in one place, you don't have a big audit trail, it just saves a whole bunch of issues. It is simpler. Hamlin: You don't have to worry about distributing money to a wrong precincts or a wrong person if it's in a centralized; if they go back to the JP then it automatically goes into their system. So I like that idea as well. The five or ten days; potentially what you are doing if you say five or ten working days or just five or ten days, potentially you're giving a person an additional opportunity to get another paycheck to try to get additional funding. Duncan: And Judge, very frankly, I would let the JPs make that decision. You don't want to take judicial expression away. The judge has a right to set that. Sims: Sure. Duncan: Whatever we do, it should be the judge's discretion. Hamlin: Because the clerk has no power whatsoever. Vol -7 g Page 70 Collections Compliance Plan Workshop 3/8/06 8 of 25 Sims: Because what I want to be able to do is advise them that it is their decision to make but we want to make it in a timely fashion. We don't want it too far out. Duncan: You go out thirty days; you're going to lose them. Sims: That's right. That's right. Ok. Commissioner's, any other questions for...Marc, you want to proceed on then? Mallard: Is there a way we can centralize, not centralize, but at least all the rules would be the same throughout all the JPs? They would come to some agreement so that there would be at least a standardization in how they were going to... Hamlin: What we're hoping to do Commissioner is to give and get everyone on the same page when it comes to collection, fines, and court cost. And have everybody have the same standards whether they are on probation, non- probation, if they are JP; it doesn't make any difference. We're just trying to get them where everybody is on the same page. Duncan: One of the discretionary things in the Senate bill and what the auditors are going to look at is item number one and gentlemen, I should have given you that. In the back of this is a form that the auditors are going to use when they come in and the issue here is the number two issue that says, `Is there written policies? Does the court have written policies, is it uniform?' In other words it's like in church, you can't sing the song if everybody is not on the same page of the songbook. Peters: Russ, did I hear you say that in Bexar County when they set up this system that about eighty percent of the folks end up paying in full before... Duncan: They avoid downtown. Peters: I'm sure. Duncan: Because if you go down to that central criminal justice judge downtown, you pay ten dollars in a parking lot or you got an hour parking meter that you're never back to and you're going to get a parking ticket. It is somewhat a matter of inconvenience. In all honest and all truthfulness part of the situation of getting the defendants to pay is making it inconvenient to them. It shouldn't be convenient. I mean we should be as helpful as possible, we should be as helpful as possible but not necessarily convenient. Sims: The way Texas Avenue is torn up right now, it would be inconvenient, wouldn't it, for some? Ok. So if they want a payment schedule and they are in the JP office, they would fill out a short form is what I'm...no? Vol 7 Page `71 Collections Compliance Plan Workshop 3/8/06 9 of 25 Hamlin: If they want a payment plan, they have to come down here. Sims: Now don't you want them to have some kind of records out there though that they are sending them down there? Hamlin: Oh, Judge, we would do that automatically. Sims: Ok. Hamlin: We would have a court docket from each one of the courts, we would know who... Sims: With the information that you would need to be able to contact them? Hamlin: Right. Sims: If they don't show. Hamlin: And the key to that, Judge, is that is currently what they are doing now. I won't say all of the JPs but that system is very easy to do, they have the court dockets, they can just write down addresses and phone numbers and that sort of thing. But the key is going to be when the JPs...I don't know if you've been in court very much, but when a judge hands down a verdict they can emphasizes the importance of them showing up and if they don't show up they are in violation of a court order. They have signed the piece of paper that they understand that and now a warrant is issued. The key to that is that is JPs; and I think the ones that I've talked to understand that we're going to have those. It's just not going to be an increase we don't believe. They don't show up now sometimes. They come out there, they show up and they give them five or ten days to come back and make a payment and they don't ever come back and then there is a warrant issued. That's just a simple process that we would know every day. It would be a daily event that we would know who was suppose to, when they were suppose to show up, and if they don't show up we go find the JPs and then they do whatever they are going to do. If they are going to issue a warrant, that is under their bailiwick. Sims: We don't have much of a deterrent coming from adult probation over there. You know, they can walk across the street. But I like that convenience to be able to come over and set up a payment schedule. Please, if anybody here has questions that they would like to ask if Russ or Marc or whomever, please do so. Yes sir? Cauley: I'm late. I have a question and it may have already been answered. This is in criminal cases? Vol -7 9 Page a Collections Compliance Plan Workshop 3/8/06 10 of 25 Duncan: Yes sir and only on adjudicated cases. Hamlin: We are able to get civil cases up front. Sims: I'll say this for Community Supervision, yall have a great system over there as far as your system of tracking is concerned. I mean, they really do, and it's second to none. They pulled some things up on the computer and said, "Look at this; this is how we track these people. And this is how we make sure they come in and they pay." So with that in mind, I do like their system. Personally, what I want to try to do is try to get a centralized collection system and I'm asking the Commissioners to go along with me. Marc, go on and take it further than that. We've got a collection system, it's in your department; how long do you want to work with these people to get them in to pay? Thirty, sixty, ninety days? Hamlin: I'll defer back to Russ. Duncan: As long as people are on a payment plan and they are paying their payment plan as agreed then they should be kept in the system. I think what you are alluding to is when do you want to look at sending it more towards their... Sims: That's right. Duncan: I think if they are delinquent sixty-one day as the law says, you can go after them. Mallard: Let me ask you this? Sixty-one days from the last payment? Duncan: From the last payment. In other words if they ...look it's not cost effective to spend your time and money and effort on a (inaudible) . Sims: That's true. Duncan: So why not go ahead and deal with your upfront stuff and let the people who are not being responsive, let them be responsive to somebody else that and get that thirty percent tack on. That's one of the things by the way that the compliance office uses then they put them on a payment plan is to say, "You understand if you make a decision to go delinquent and you are delinquent sixty-one days, we are going to turn you over to a collection agency law firm and they are going to tack on thirty percent of what you already owe so you are going to be paying thirty percent more." So that is also a deterrent. Remember we talked about deterrents. What we're really trying to do is educate and deter. We're not trying to slam dunk anybody. And what we want to do is get them out of the system. Mallard: What is the longest length that you usually go? Vol 19 Page 13 Collections Compliance Plan Workshop 3/8/06 11 of 25 Duncan: That's really determined by when looking at the application you determine the person's ability to pay, look at their discretionary income, and you make a decision that will cause them to succeed, not fail. I must tell you that in my background in the Greenville compliance office, my first program was I want fifty-percent of the money with in forty-eight hours, your first payday I want half of what is left of the judgment and all of it in sixty. But it also had a fallback that said you could pay me a quarter, quarter, and quarter or I had payments that said you could me a sixth, a sixth, and a sixth out to six month. I rarely went past six months. If I did go past six months, I usually said, "You know you're going to owe more than you pay in six months but in six months you're going to come back and see me and fill out another application." And the reason is so you don't track and things change. And opportunity changes. And again, it's inconvenient. "Look you gotta come back and you gotta go through this process again." Look, what we're talking about is a reasonable thing. It's like if you were in the private sector and you had money owed to somebody, they're going to hold you accountable. You can't even go to one of these stores without filling out the application. They want to know who you are and where you are and where you work. So all we're doing is being merely reasonable and government saying the dollar today is worth a dollar six months from now. It really should be determine by the compliance office. The compliance office and the compliance manager should set a set of standards that their people follow. They should be firm but fair. People should be treated with dignity and respect; we shouldn't take away their dignity because that is the best way to lose them. But you should be firm. Remember this whole thing, this office does represent both the court and the county with everything they do and every act they do reflects upon the court and the county. Sims: Right. Marc you want to proceed with it? Hamlin: I want to make sure if anybody has any questions, we're ready to work with any and all the JPs so that whatever is best. Again, I don't know if any of the JPs have concerns. I've had three meetings with Judge Meese concerning collections and I'm not for sure if anybody has heard from Judge Meese, did yall? Sims: No. Hamlin: I didn't know if anybody had heard from her. But if everybody is finished with the JPs we'll be glad to go on to community supervision. Sims: Hold on just a minute, let me see. Charlie may have something. Mallard: I think the difference is you will still me collecting the money, it's just that if they want a payment plan they will be stated to come to the county office and Vol ~7 8' Page -7+ Collections Compliance Plan Workshop 3/8/06 12 of 25 to get it set up and fill out a loan application and that's actually been shown to be a deterrent which makes a lot of people a couple of days after that and then they just come back to you and pay all of it. And that's what's really surprised me but that's actually been happening. Peters: Once they fill out that application, if they begin a payment plan it gets paid to the JP courts, it wouldn't go through... Ellis: The question I had and the one that bothers me the most is that the fact the if the person leaves to go somewhere else to fill out the application rather than filling it out at the time that they are leaving or before they can leave. My feeling is are that once a judgment is made or once the person made a plea of guilty and you going to arrange a judgment and he can't pay at that moment in time, granted he has ten days to make the payment in terms of public appeal. My feelings are is that the needs to make an application right then before he walks out the door. So at the end of ten days you've got the information to take care of it right then. Then turn it over to collections. There is an awful lot of people that I know what they do to us right now and that is once they get the judgment and they walk out the door that is the last we see of them no matter what kind of instructions they have. Duncan: That can be done and that's up to the Justices and there are Justice Courts that do that. It just means more work for your clerks. Ellis: I understand that. Duncan: But that would perfectly possible and suitable and then that could be faxed to the compliance office and the compliance office would then have all that information on hand and all they have to do is bring them in, review... Sims: And negotiate the payment schedule. Duncan: That's right. So it would cut down some time on this end and if it's a comfort level for the judge then you should consider that. A fax machine is a marvelous thing and you can fax those over or it could be done online or Internet and email it over. There are electronic ways of doing that. To me, I'm always going side with the judges and say whatever makes the judges comfortable. Oechlert: When they do come in my office I will make them sign a payment plan. I have three copies, one goes to me in my file, one goes to the defendant, and one goes in the Court's file. Mallard: So the application process is not the same thing as a payment plan. They would still need to come to you to get that done? Vol I Y Page 5