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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2007-08-28-6:00PM-PUBLIC HEARINGBRAZOS COUNTY BRYAN, TEXAS i. 1 -ED NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING t0 4- 4 $ BRAZOS COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT E;L €RK THE COMMISSIONERS COURT OF BRAZOS COUNTY WILL CONDUCT A PUBLIC HEARING ON TUESDAY 28 AUGUST 2007 AT 6:00 P.M. IN ROOM 102 OF THE BRAZOS CENTER, 3232 BRIARCREST DRIVE, BRYAN, TEXAS. The Court will consider the regulations of on -site sewage facilities (including septic tanks) in Brazos County, Texas to prevent possible pollution or injury to public health. A copy of the proposed changes to the current order is available at the Brazos County Health Department, 201 North Texas Avenue, Bryan, TX. All interested persons are invited to attend said hearing and present their cause, if any, for or against the proposed changes to the current order. The Brazos Center is wheelchair accessible. Handicap parking spaces are available. Any request for sign interpretive services must be made two business days before the meeting. To make arrangements, call (979) 361 -4102. Office of the County Judge . 300 East 26`' St. Suite 114 . Bryan, Texas 77803 • Fax: (979) 361 -4503 Q q "__ '�/ 0 I of 30 COMMISSIONERS' COURT PUBLIC HEARING August 28, 2007 The Commissioners' Court of Brazos County, Texas held a Public Hearing in Room 102 of the Brazos Center, 3232 Briarcrest Drive, Bryan, Brazos County, Texas, beginning at 6:00 p.m. on Tuesday August 28, 2007, with the following members of the Court present: Randy Sims, County Judge, Presiding; Lloyd Wassermann, Commissioner of Precinct l; Duane Peters, Commissioner of Precinct 2; Kenny Mallard, Commissioner of Precinct 3; Carey Cauley, Commissioner of Precinct 4; Karen McQueen, County Clerk. Attached is a list of the citizens and officials in attendance. Attached is a transcript of the Public Hearing. Vol qq Page a 1 1 2 of 30 BRAZOS COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT Public Hearing on Regulations of On -site Sewage Facilities August 14th, 2007 Sims: The Commissioners' Court of Brazos County will conduct a public hearing on Tuesday the 281h, August 2007 at 6:00 p.m., room 102 at the Brazos Center, 3232 Briarcrest Drive, Bryan, Texas. The Court will consider the regulations of on -site sewage facilities (including septic tanks) in Brazos County, Texas to prevent possible pollution or injury to public health. A copy of the proposed changes to the current order is available at the Brazos County Health Department, 201 North Texas Avenue, Bryan, Texas. We're glad that you're here; let me give you a few grounds rules that we go by when we have our meetings. For citizens wishing to address the Commissioners' Court, please state your name and address for the record. Please refrain from using the call ... the call for citizens is not on here today. Please understand that if the topic a citizen wishes to address before the Court is not part of the posted agenda, which it is tonight, I'm sure. Citizen presentation is limited to four to five minutes. For your convenience, a clock has been placed at the back of the room and you will have four to five minutes from the time on that clock when you begin speaking to address the Court. And with that in mind, I have one that has already signed up to speak; Mildred Gandy you're on. Gallego: Judge, would you ask them to come to the mike? Sims: Yes, if you will come down to the microphones so we can pick this up and report it. Name and address please. Gandy: Mildred Gandy, 3545 Old Reliance Road, Bryan. I had only one day to look into this so I'm certainly no expert and I have more questions than answers here at the reading. I did not have a copy of the proposed OSSF changes for Brazos County. I didn't have this today. I did, however, go by and pick up the guidance documents for designated representatives which is the effects of House Bill 2482 which the legislature passed and it will go into effect September 1st._.if I'm correct. It tells us that homeowner maintenance as of September 1st all homeowner's called Vol 09 Page a( 01- 3 of 30 will be allowed to maintain their own system with no required training unless the local ordinance prohibits the homeowner maintenance. Additionally, these homeowners are neither required to report testing results to the permitting authority nor required to notify the permitting authority if they decide to maintain their own system." And, of course, this is in a county with a population of 40,000 or more which is us. Now the 40,000 or less people, they can do the thing so we won't look at that. But, of course, this is very complicated and not having time to prepare, I'm just here asking questions and asking you to please give us more time on this because the effects of this... after reading the proposed changes very briefly because I didn't have a copy, it occurs to me and I know that is going to be the case that this whatever you do is going to have vast implication for the homeowner. And I'll tell you this; Brazos County has, in my opinion, some of the best, hard - working people in the State of Texas. And we deserve... all of us; me included ... we deserve to have rules that are clear, that we can follow, and that don't rip us off our pocketbooks. Because when you look into all this, everything is a fee ... but to find someone, no. Because, let me tell you, most people want to do the right thing. But his is a complicated thing. Use to ... now you know this is true ... you could have a septic tank installed; a nice big concrete, round deal with a lid on it and you'd call the man to come out and clean it out, you paid him a fee, and they were great. These guys were great. And that was the end of it. Oh, but now we have an aerobic system that is just highly touted. Not so, I'm afraid. But that's my opinion. And I still barely am allowed to have my opinion now. But anyway, the point is this; this aerobic deal is evidently... and I am not expert and I don't even say that I am ... but this is a very complicated issue. It is going to impact our people in this County. Money, money, money ... I see money, money, money. Everything is a fee or you're gonna ... no, you're not gonna find people. We elect you all and these people are paid by us to come out and help us. And come out and say, "Well now look, so and so needs to be done to your septic tank. Here's what we can do to help you and here's the rules. Let's give suggestions and you do it." Now most people are reasonable. You know what I'm saying here? They're reasonable. We want reasonable rules. I do believe that every citizen that lives outside, in this County wants reasonable rules. They want them clear cut, reasonable, and not to fleece their pocketbooks. Vol 011 Page 913 4 of 30 Now, gentlemen, that's what I'm here to say. And we need more study on this. This is complicated. Just from what I've read ... if I had had more time I might have said more. But you get my drift here, right? Sims: Sure. Gandy: Ok. That's it and thank you very much. Sims: Thank you very much. Let me stop right here and I'm going to allow our representative to the Health Department, Kenny Mallard, to go through and explain the rules. Maybe he can clarify, Ms. Gandy, some of the misconceptions or whatever the case may be, ok? Gandy: Right. That's why I'm here. Mallard: I'll try. And I'll have the some of the Health Department if I miss a beat or if I misstate ... if you'll say something. Male: Sure. Mallard: Basically we're concerned. We have a lot of issues about are moving out. We currently have one acre requirement. Technically, under the State of Texas, you can go down to a half acre to build your house and your septic system, and your swimming pool, and your garages, and your driveways, and set all these up. As we see, most houses that are being built are generally larger than they have been in the past. I think that's wonderful that people are able to build their castle and put it wherever they want to and set that up. But our problem is usually the last thing that goes in on houses that are being putting in ... the last thing they really think about is, `Oh, you know, 1 need to get that septic system put in.' But they've, basically, grown their space with hard cover, with concrete or driveways and patios and maybe a swimming pool and things. And so, eventually, that lot ... usable area in there for the spray fields has shrunk. And so we have a problem there. We do have people now that have their spray fields coming up next to their house, irrigating by their... Gandy: But I am aware of that particular issue. Mallard: Yes ma'am. Some of them will set it up ... if we don't do that, maybe we set it further back and then maybe it sprays onto their neighbor. We have issues with that that we're concerned about. Because it's all about the health and safety of our citizens that we're worried about out in the County. So it is an issue that we have. Vol q1 Page a1' 5 of 30 One thought process would be to increase the lot size on new houses from one acre to two acres. I don't know that that would necessarily solve the problem of having an adequate spray field because if you can build a one acre lot you could probably fill up a two acre lot or maybe even more as far as doing that. So my concern is that we have an adequate spray field for the house that is going to be constructed on there. The bad news about the County is that we are an extension of State government and we must follow the State Constitution about everything we do. We have to get permission from the State. We don't have the power to write ordinances and rules like the cities do. And they can set up those issues on how to deal with that and coordinate that effort. So we can't do that. We can't tell you that when some of our folks move out into the County ... we say that it's basically, the buyer beware. Because I had a lady calling me today, she said that she moved out in this section and that she had a road there and she expected that to be a County road. Well, to and behold, it's a private road and it's her road and now the mailman won't even go down that road anymore because the road is in such bad shape. And she's asking me to come fix her road. But I can not. Gandy: I understand. Mallard: So that's where our concern is, to try to bring the OSSF to the forefront and try to make it an issue. How can we help protect our citizens so that they'll understand... it shouldn't be the last thing that they think of. But they should plan their house so that they would make sure that whatever size that...'cause that's where it makes a difference; how many bedrooms I believe it is. Plitt: Right. Mallard: However many bedrooms you have is how big the spray field that you have to have in order to irrigate that effluent water out on a part of your lot, not up next to your house. Because you don't want your pets, you don't want you children out there playing in the yard and then bringing that all inside. I mean it's a real health problem that we have and we're dealing with. So it's an issue. We do have a concern about the fact that the State of Texas has decided that every home owner is qualified to deal with their septic system. Now with spray fields, it's not something that just everybody wants to wrestle with. But I think that there are people that can deal with their spray field. But I think that they need to have some training and have some assurances that they know what they're doing so that they're not Vol 'Iq Page 915 6 of 30 poisoning themselves, their family, and their neighbors. So we have concerns about that. So we feel like that maybe the legislature hadn't thought through this particular process. They like the citizens to be able to do their own thing but when it comes down to health and safety we're concerned about that I think that's an issue that we have. So it's all about how do we that? Can we put it on the plat? One way to maybe bring it to the forefront when people are going buy a house or buy a lot and build a house out on the lot is that we could put it in the platting process so that they could say, `Well, we'll have maybe a utility set- back.' Something to denote that the homeowner has to prepare that when they design their house they've got to know that there's going to be a spray field somewhere. Many people will buy a totally wooded lot and think, `Well, I'll put the septic system somewhere back up there in the tress and the brush.' Well it doesn't evaporate when it's under the trees and the brush so it has to be an open area. Then you're saying, `Well, I've gotta cut some tress down that really wasn't thinking about doing.' But that is something that has to be planned for. So there are many things that have to happen and we feel like that the septic system comes to an issue after the fact ... when many things are already set in place on that one acre lot. And then it becomes to be a tight situation and so they're really in a bind to make it work. We're trying to figure out a way to put it in the front. So that's our problem. We're not trying to burden the citizens. We're not trying to make it more difficult or more expensive but we want to make sure it's going to work. So that's really the issue. One of the big challenges that we have is so many reports are coming in. We have more and more people who are building their houses out there that are coming in ... it's very difficult for us to keep with them and to know when they're a violation. We have inspections now ... many of them are by the installer that are working in there. They come in and report to us that there's a break down. But there are homeowners out there that haven't fixed their break down that they have. And so the inspection report comes and it's negative but it's trying to catch with that. So we're concerned ... not about people who are trying to do the right thing but about people who maybe are not worried about it or don't care. And are not taking care of it. So not only are they damaging and are putting their family at risk but also the neighborhood. Even though it's a one acre lot ... which is a pretty good size piece of ground... still you're in a sub - division. You have a neighbor right next Vol q C1 Page J/60 7 of 30 door to you. And so we don't want to be injuring them or put that in a situation where that would happen. So this is what we're trying to do ... is problem solve instead of just dictating many things out to everyone. And that's really why we're trying to put this group together. We want to work with developers. There are issues other than just having a septic system in your back yard. If we had perfect world... and this is Kenny Mallard's opinion, not the Commissioners' Court ... but it would be nice if we had sewer out in the County to the fact that if we had large package plants where if a sub- division went in then all sewer would go in just like a city sewer system. But handled by an individual package plant that would handle however many lots there were in that sub - division. Then you wouldn't have to worry about the spray fields ... you could run your loads of laundry all in one day instead of running one load a day so you don't overload your own little package plant in your back yard. So that's another thing with the developers... maybe we could work that out. I also hope that some of the members from the City Council ... not the Council, but anyway, their staff would be here to work with it. They already operate sewer systems now, maybe they would be interested in running the package plants. So that's why I'm trying to come up with maybe an even bigger solution than everybody having their own septic system in their backyard. Maybe there's another way we could go about this as far as picking it up. Where the developers would have an opportunity. If we did that perhaps we could allow them to build on smaller lots, on a half acre lot. We can reduce that down if, in fact, we have a package plant so they don't need the spray fields anymore. It would all run to that package plant. So there are many components to this besides just the regulation on the septic system. But we need to look at that as well. Especially on the homeowner maintenance that we're looking at to make sure that that is done correctly. So, anyway, I hope I haven't rambled too much but to try to bring out some questions and some thoughts to maybe how we can solve the problem and try to help everybody out. Sims: Ms. Gandy would you like to come down and stay and then we'll take some other questions or comments or whatever? Would you like to say anything else? Vol I Page a 17 F-0 t Gandy: Well, no ... I just wanted to tell him that his point was well taken but, remember, all of these folks who are outside the city are there and they're caught in this situation. That's why I just emphasized that when I was up there that we need to go slowly and go into every aspect of it and make sure that the citizens understand it through the newspaper or whatever... that's a point that I wanted to make. Sims: With all due respect to the newspaper, I'm not really sure you will understand it after you read the paper. Now then, let's open it up. Anyone else? I'm sure some people have some questions. Let me just ask a question here; how many developers and builders do we have here tonight? Would yall raise your hands? Good. Good. If yall would like, yall have got the microphone and can ask questions, comment on it ... can't throw anything at us now. But yall can come up and say anything you would like to say. Any citizens out there like Ms. Gandy that would like to make comments... please do. All we need is your name and address so we can put it on the record. Yes ma'am. Wilborne: My name is Betty Wilbome, 3060 Baron Cut Off Road. I am now in the City but I was just annexed here a few years ago. And I want to know ... I'm grandfathered in on my septic systems and I want to know to since the City of College Station has not been out in that area on Baron Cut Off Road to make any improvements or to upgrade anything since we've been paying taxes and being charged water run offs when it's been running that way for the last 150 years. But my question to you is ... I have a 1,000 gallon tank, two 500 gallon cement tanks on one section of my property. And will I have to contact the Brazos Health Department and let them know when I get it pumped or send them a receipt or how would that be handled. I did not have an aerobic system. But my son has an aerobic system and he lives on the back part of my acreage. Plitt: Do you want me to answer? Sims: Yes sir. Please. Name and address, please. Plitt: My name is Don Plitt; I'm the Director of the Environmental Health Department at the Brazos County Health Department. And to answer your question; no. Your water has been disposed of underground in a leach field, is that correct? Welbome: Yes. Plitt: Then this does not apply to you. Welbome: But it will apply to my son's who has an aerobic system, right? Vol q Page 0-1K 9 of 30 Plitt: Yes. The maintenance part of this would. Some of the other parts. Welborne: Maintenance would. Plitt: Uh -huh. (positive) Yes. Welborne: Ok. Thank you very much. Sims: Thank you. Yes sir? Rutledge: My name is Montel Rutledge; I live at 3033 Cain Road, College Station. I wear various hats in the industry. What I would like to specifically address it Item #3 on the proposed changes regarding administrative fees. It mentions it will be assessed to homeowners. I suggest that the Commissioners' Court consider changing that to property owners. One of my duties as General Manager and President of Brazos Valley Septic and Water ... I do have a maintenance license; we do maintenance on aerobic systems. Historically, in my experience, if you notify a homeowner who occupies that dwelling that you have a problem ... it might take a second remind because everybody's busy nowadays, a lot is going on. They usually get around to. First time they say, "Ok ", the second time they usually tackle it. But, you know Brazos County has a lot of absentee property owners. We have two colleges and a lot of property, businesses... and my concern would be that somebody would this and say, `I just live here ... I'm not the homeowner, or the property owner ... I'm the renter." In a business. So I just urge the Commissioners' Court to consider changing that to property owner. Sims: Good comment. Plitt: Sir, may I answer that? Sims: Yes sir. Plitt: From the Heath Department stand point, I don't have a problem with that. We generally... when we find out somebody doesn't have a contract; we call the appraisal district, find out who owns the property and file against them. So we generally file anyway against property owners. The homeowner in most cases is the property owner. But sometimes he's correct that we have to find out who the property owner is. And that would go against the property owner. Vol CM Page a 1 q 10 of 30 Almand: I have a question. Sims: Yes ma'am. Please. Ma'am would you come down and speak... Ramona: You'll hear me. Sims: Oh, ok. Almand: I'm Ramona Almand and I live at 4896 Wickson Court and this North Country Estate subdivision out there. My question is this two acre minimum lot you're assigning people. Where we built is a little over an acre and a half for most of the block. And, of course, all the homes were being built there. A number and two - thirds of our sub - division are retired ... I'm no saying retired people... they're moving here from other areas and they chose to live out there. And a number of them are retired citizens. And when you start talking about bigger lots then people have to take care of more property. I'm here in my husband's place, he has all (inaudible), but he ... this is one of the things that we've had some concerns about. Because people are having to have ... if they're elderly, they're going to need to have their property taken care of, with help. So that's just my question. Sims: Thank you very much. Yes sir? Davis: My name is Kenneth Davis; I'm an installer here in Brazos County. And I have a hand out I'd like to present the Court if I could. Sims: Yes sir. Please do. Davis: I don't particularly have any issues with the changes that the County want's to make. I actually would like to kind of amend it though and add a couple of things. One of the reasons we're here tonight about the homeowner maintenance issue is because there are some needs concerns that haven't been addressed in the past and since they kept going on unanswered... the legislature took it in their hands to pass this homeowner maintenance... that homeowners could do their own maintenance. At the same time in 2005, they passed House Bill 2510 that said, "Homeowners may maintain their own septic system with six hours of on -site training." And in the same breath they said that installers and maintenance provider must have up to 16 hours of training. The only issue I have with that is that a lot of us have background in on -site septic systems or on -site sewage facilities. We have our Installer I, Installer II license. We now have a basic maintenance provider course that we've gone through that was a result of 2510. They required us to go through, basically, the introduction to safety ... to a variety of different technologies; aerobic Vol q Page 0-09- 0 11 of 30 treatment technologies, so that we can be familiar with all technologies or different types of technologies and methods. For aerobic bacteria whether it's fixed -film, suspended growth, different types of things that we can do to improve it as far as operation maintenance go. One of the big things I see is that our State has largely under grossed the waste water flow in a lot of houses. If you look at the third page in your handout... at the top it starts out with "...single family dwelling less than 1,500 square feet... ", it calls for 180 gallons per day. And the State assumes two people in the first bedroom which would be a 120 gallons per day. And then one person in the second bedroom which calculates into 180 ... it's basically 60 gallons per person. If you flip to the next page where it's titled Wastewater Flow Characteristics and you look down at the bottom it says, "Dwelling, single family... ", it labels out 75 gallons per person. And if you note the publisher down at the bottom or the writer's and the date, Goldstein and Moberg, 1973. Our houses have done nothing but increase and size. The flow capabilities have increased in size. So I guess, basically, the point I'm trying to get to is that our State is at 60 and in 1975 this study showed 75. Typically your homes back then had one to one and a half bathrooms. So now we have five bedrooms, five bathroom homes and we have flows going through there much greater than was capable back then. Because at 75 gallons per person ... if your brother and sister are beating on the door of the bathroom `cause they wanna get in... you're gonna cut the water off. Now we have continuous run water heaters that just have an endless amount of how water. People can get in their showers that have ten shower heads and Jacuzzi tubs that hold 250 gallons of water and we're still at 60 gallons per person with water saving devices. And if you look at the second thing on Item #2 of the Brazos County Workshop, basically I'm proposing 150 gallons per bedroom for all systems. If you look on page 2 of your hand out, there's an EPA study that was done 2002 that shows the mean indoor gallons per capita per day per person. And if you look at 60 which is the 6th bar over ... this roughly means that we're going to catch about 40% of all flows at 60 gallons per person. If you look over here at 150 gallons per day per person, we're going to catch roughly 75% to 80% of all flows. So at the 150 gallons per day we're going to be more (inaudible). Our septic systems are going to be large enough that we have fewer failure and few failures are going to protect the public health and it's going to end some of this problem that we have that the Legislature has addressed with all of these things breaking down because of service factors and service intervals. Vol Page 0.1 12 of 30 If I take a half ton pickup truck and I drag my backhoe to the job ... I'm gonna be burning up the clutch. It's not going to be safe. I'm gonna be wearing out the breaks. I'm gonna be blowing out tires. But now if I buy a one ton truck or a two ton truck or a five ton truck, I can now safely haul that backhoe to the job. My service intervals go down. I'm not going to be burning up the clutches, brakes, and the transmission. And so, basically, I've taken the same standpoint on the septic systems ... that we increase the size of the septic system. There's a couple of things in here that I've outlined that we can put some protections in there to protect public health and safety. Some of these homeowners that don't want to fix their septic systems ... we can put lock- out features in the system which most manufacturers already have the ability to do this because it's required in several other counties in the State. Whereas if they have a compressor failure or they have some other type of failure in the system ... it basically locks out the pump so they can't keep discharging untreated effluent or partially treated effluent. Partially treated effluent can not be disinfected and the whole premise on sprays is that it's treated and it's disinfected and safe to spray. And a lot of people have taken the stance that, `Well, we'll just put it on time and we'll spray it at night time and we'll hide our sins. So if it's partially treated and partially disinfected... that's ok because we're going to spray at night time and we're not going to have to deal with it.' But by increasing the size of the system ... in a lot of cases that's going to include flow equalization. Which a lot of your waste water treatment plants ... I don't want to speak for Mr. Brown, but Mr. Brown is an engineer here in town. He deals with a lot of package plants. One of the things ... they work better is because they have flow equalization. Basically, the chambers in the system have a retention time where the fluid is, their waste water effluent is air lifted or moved from ... it's batched basically, and it's done in sequence and there's a time that's associated with it. So that just like in the waste water it has a certain contact time for disinfection. If you slow that waster water down via a dosing pump that you can actually treat the water and you can actually disinfect the water and you can make it safe to spray. I won't go through everything here but I'm sure Don, if he gets a copy of this, he would probably agree that most of this right here is something that's probably necessary and will also protect the public heath. And so as far as amendments and changes on the Brazos County thing; I'm (inaudible) to most of it. I see a need for most of it because the County is kind of struggling with having to deal with all these maintenance reports. Vol 9 Page e�ac; - 13 of 30 And as far as the rest of it; homeowner maintenance... they need some type of training. They need to be able to know what they're looking at. To diagnose certain conditions that they might not be familiar with so that the can call for help. And so that it doesn't just keep discharging partially treated effluent and stuff. But even if the homeowner isn't trained, some of the things I've outlined in this Brazos County Workshop sheet would put some added protection in there to help protect that homeowner if they are trying to do their own maintenance. So that's all I have for you. Sims: Thank you very much. Mallard: I know we have some members from the development community and from the Cities ... I didn't know if yall maybe would care to jump in there and visit a little bit and see about the possibility of maybe going beyond the individual package plan or spray field in each lot. See if it's workable or something out in the County if we could go to package plan situation to where we can develop that in with it. Is it financially viable and is there a way to go about and do that to see if we can make that go instead of everybody having an individual plant. No volunteers? Browne: My name is Dale Browne, I'm with McClure and Browne Engineering and Surveying. I also live at 1613 Peach Crossing Drive, way down south in a totally different area code. So I'm way down there. I, myself, do live on a one acre lot. I have about a 3,000 square foot home. Being an engineer, the first thing I looked at was my spray field size. How much area I got. Most people aren't gonna think of that. You know you wish it was like it used to be ... the old times where everybody could have septic systems in the ground and fill it up. You don't have to worry about it ... come get it pumped out once in a while. But the soils are here can't take that. And to address everybody not having an on -site facility and going to a package plant... a couple of issues with that. Myself, I moved out in the County to get a bigger lot `cause I wanted to be on a bigger lot. I didn't wanna move outta town, move back into town, but yet have to drive ten miles to get back in to town. So I don't know if the market is there to put smaller lot developments out in the County with standard sewer, water, and people wanna come out and live just like they were in town. I prefer ... if I wanted to do that, I'd live in town. Vol q1 Page ate' 14 of 30 There are a lot of different collection systems that you can use. When you start doing gravity systems which is the typical way of collecting waste water ... when you get into larger lots, I'd say half an acre lots, anything bigger or over than that ... it gets to where it's not economically feasible to do it. It just cost too much. And the price of the lot goes up and it just starts costing a lot more. There is a system called a low pressure collection system where, basically, ever house has a pump station at it and it pumps into a force maintenance out in the road and then it all pumps to a waste water plant. That lowers some of the cost that is involved with a gravity system. But still, there's that cost that's involved with that. And then, also getting a plant permitted and all that... you start running into quite a bit of cost. There's a minimum number of lots that you can, first off, develop just to get started. Mallard: Do you have a guesstimate on...? Davis: Well, I think, in the past we've looked at ... unless you're pretty sure ... I believe I want to say it was around 200 lots. Now some people be different. That's been a while back since we've looked at it. Mallard: Two hundred or more? Davis: Right. There is a big initial cost involved with putting in package plant. You have to have a place to put it. You have to go through all the permitting from TCQ. And if everything goes perfectly and great and fine ... you might get it done in nine months. But more than likely it's going to take a lot longer than that. So those are a lot of issue that the developers, I believe, look at and shy away from because time is money. And that's a big problem. In regard to some of the items that are on the list, I agree with what you said about the two acre minimum. I don't think that'll solve your problem. They put too much on one acre now ... you get two acres... they're gonna put more on two acres. I think there needs to be some way in the platting process that it needs to be controlled somehow. I don't know how but something like in the platting process to be able to regulate that. Other than that, the other items... the fine for chlorination... don't have any regards to that. I check mine but I'm an engineer, I know what's going to be coming out of there. There are other people though, that Vol 9 Page dA 15 of 30 would probably never check it and that don't ever check it. And it just so happened Friday or Saturday morning at 4:00 in the morning my compressor on my aerobic system quite and my alarm went off. I called my installer and he came out and he fixed it that day. I don't know of a lot of people would do that. But I understand what we'd be spraying out there and my kids would be walking around ... everybody'd be around and you'd be dealing with it. A lot of people just forget about it, it's something that's there ... you just don't think about it. So that's all I have to say. Sims: Thank you, Mr. Browne. Anyone else? Mallard: I know that they're looking for some opportunities as far as to weigh on some of the issues. As far as the Homeowner Maintenance Amendment ... I think that's something that will have to come before the Commissioners' Court and possibly at the next meeting. The reason for that is that the law will go into effect on September Is'. And so I think we would have to address that part of it as far as whether the individual homeowner would have to have some training or some maintenance. So I feel very strongly that we want to make sure that anyone that's going to be maintaining a septic system... whether it's their own or someone else's ... has some form of training or knowledge of what they're doing. So I think that will probably be addressed. I'm going to ask if we can address that on our next Commissioners' Court meeting. So next Tuesday at 9:00 o'clock I hope that we would be able to get that on the agenda at that time. The top four items, I think, that we can discuss that further and move into that part as far as deciding on what we're going to do and perhaps we could get together a committee to where we could get representatives from the Cities and homeowners and folks in the development business, folks in the building business. Our biggest problem is that the process that you go through ... that it seems like the septic system is always the last thing. How do we bring it to the forefront? We thought, well, we could ask the title companies to do it. Well, they're worried about legally about advising you about a septic system that they don't have any background on. We were thinking about putting it on the plat. Well, when you close on you loan at the title company, you're two foot by three foot plat is reduced down 8.5 x 11 piece of paper. You can barely see the lines of where your lot is ... much less those ten paragraphs that are on there ... it looks like a gray area on the bottom part of your plat. So how do we get that information as a Commissioners' Court? I'm not asking yall to answer that but I'm saying those are the questions that we have because Vol �� Page �S 16 of 30 our ability to have ordinance power is basically very, very limited. Heath and Safety is one of the issues we can deal with. Maybe in our permitting process somehow we could do it. I was hoping we could put something on the plat that would require each lot would have a set -back for the spray fields. And then you say, `Well, my house won't fit the way I want to build it because I have this spray field in the way.' Well maybe there's a way to massage that around so that it would still work. We still don't have all of the answer on that. We're working on it but it looks like it's more limited than finding opportunities. We have gone to the Legislature and asked them to give us some of that authority. There are a lot of folks that say, `Well, we don't want more government regulations.' And so it did not pass. My concern is that ... what the obvious is ... about all this effluent being out in our yards and in the neighbor's yards. So we just have to find a compromise somewhere and we have to wait another two years before we can go back to the Legislature. Hopefully, our attorneys can help us in trying to find some solution that will be equitable so that a citizen going into a closing will get some notification, `Hey, you need to think about this. You need to deal with this at some point in time.' But, so far, we haven't found a way where we can require it. Sims: Yes sir? Lesikar: Bruce Lesikar. I'm at 5707 Shellbournes Hill on College Station. I wear various hats also but, I guess, tonight I'll speak mainly as homeowner. A couple of comments; one is that Item 3 on Proposed Changes, administrative fee ... one of the things that I was curious about is that I'm assuming that that would be gained from the maintenance reports that would be coming in is how you would know that that was done. So the question I have is that if a homeowner... one of the things that I don't see under Homeowner Maintenance Amendment is that they have to file a report. And so, does the homeowner have to file a report? Plitt: Bruce, it's number A under Homeowner Maintenance Amendment. Lesikar: As far as the maintenance contract and testing and reporting. Plitt: Testing and reporting. Lesikar: So I'd like to say to make it clear ... there has to be. The second thing I'll tell you is that most homeowner... once they get the first fine won't ever report that again that it's not working. Because that will be the end of that Vol TI Page 2-��e 17 of 30 opportunity. So what I would also propose is that ... Brazos County use to have a deal every five years that you would re- inspect systems. The Legislature originally said in 2510 that you couldn't look at a greater frequency than five years. That was removed in 2482 so you do have the authority, potentially, to go out and review systems. So I would recommend that you have some kind of a thing in there that looks at the ... and what it relates to is your authorization to operate your system. That would be a renewable /revokeable operating permit. And it would then give you the ability that you would have to renew it at some frequency and allow the Health Department to look at the system. So that's an option that if you're going to have maintenance by individuals that somebody needs to look at that system periodically in order to protect public health and environment. I know you can handle it by complaints because most of the time I can install them in the neighbor and they're not maintained. So neighbors can call. But from that standpoint it doesn't (inaudible) there. Regarding the two acres ... I don't think it's going to solve all your problems. The two acres is one option... provide greater surface area, four options ... but it still comes down to the homeowners responsibility that with an on -site system, they have to be responsible for their waste water and you can still fill two acres just as big you can fill one. The other comment that was made was that regarding the soils in the areas inability to accept wastewater. And I would contend that there are other options for dispersal of wastewater besides spray. And from that functional standpoint we have used sub - surface systems in the past. The problem is that as far as looking at other options ... low pressure dose, drip, mounded systems, some kind of a soil application sub - surface. A lot of the problems that we have right now, that is causing problems with our aerobic units is mainly water tightness and under sizing is going to be highlighted in your soil space systems. So one of the reasons why people can by with hydraulically overloading the system and spraying it out on the yard is because most of the time and during the dry period of the year it's all going to evaporate. So once we go back into sub - surface soil based systems, you are really going to have to look at your system sizing. Again, as the chart shows you, about 50% of the population uses 60 gallons a day. So if you know about averages, 50% are happy are 50% aren't. So you have to look at how that going to be looked as far as sizing. Vol 'I- Page �a7 18 of 30 So I would say that soil based systems can work so surface application can work. But you're going to have to address the water tightness issue as far as making sure systems are water tight ... you're probably going to have to go back to a open hole inspection. Where the plumbing, the piping going in and out of the tanks can be inspected by the removable cover. If you don't want to take that route, you need to look at some impromptu inspections of what's going on during the installation process. Find out who's doing the installation, use the notice of installation, and do and impromptu inspection and find out what the status of water tightness is at those systems. The way you can do that is; as I drive through neighborhoods, I tend to watch the spray systems going off. Every time it rains, you see to have a lot of excess water in your system going out on the yard. And so that's an easy way for homeowners to know whether or not your system's water tight or your neighbor's is by when it's raining how long does the sprinkler's run in the spray field. And so we have water tight issues that need to be addressed. And that is going to be highlighted once you go back in the soil. The other part is that when you are looking at sites ... you're really going to have to pay attention to the protection of the soil treatment area, when you are going back in the soil. And you're also going to have to look at site drainage; how is the water moving in those subdivisions when you're going to deal with sub - surface systems. Because everything has to go somewhere and you're going to have to look (inaudible) from the evaluation. But spray does not have to be the solution. There are other options and with property sizing and preparation, you can make it work. Sims: Ok. Thank you. Bolch: I'm Eddie Bolch, 103 North Brewer. I don't live out in the County but for nearly eleven years I was an inspector and since then I've been a designer most of the time so I have a little background. A couple of things that I think you need to be aware of...I remember because I'm probably the only one that's been there long enough to remember... back in 1988 when the first changed the rules, the size for a three- bedroom house was about 1,200 square feet in clay soil. Which most of Brazos County is clay soil. Now that same three - bedroom house has to have 3,200 square feet. You've upped the size of your drain field through the State regulations. Vol � � Page �$ 19 of 30 So that's gone in there and that's based on 240 gallons a day for a three - bedroom house ... 60 gallons per person. So we're in to there. One thing I would suggest, Don, on your wording on that from homeowner /property owner... say license holder. Then whoever holds the license is the responsible person and you can go there that way. Doctor Lester was saying there's other options... there are. But most of the time the least expensive way to put a system is an aerobic system. And I'm sure the installers here ... I hope would back me up. And people want the bottom line. You walk in and tell them, `I can put you in an aerobic system for $5,600.00.' And then you say, `But I can go into your same house, same property, and if I put you in an evapotranspiration system which is 3,200 square feet...', right now that thing may cost them $9,000.00. Or you say, `Well, we can put in a drip system which takes less square footage but with all of the bells and whistles you have to have for that, it may cost you even more.' So, you know, everybody looks at the bottom line and says, `Well put in me in an aerobic.' And when they first started pushing aerobic systems, I said, "The first person that wants that system ... it's their system, they wanted it, they're going to have it and by golly, it'll work forever. Because they wouldn't admit if it goes bad anyhow." The second or third person down the line goes, `What's an aerobic ?' `I don't know.' This is the old thing and nobody knows. And these aerobics, through technology, they have gotten more complicated. The old gravity flow ET system ... you flush it down, it's gone, and you don't worry about it again. But when you get pumps, aerators, and all that involved in it... you need somebody who has been trained and who cares about it. Just like how many of yall do a tune up on your own car now? Not many. Too many things can go wrong. And when you've got the modern technology, you need somebody who is going to be trained. Who is going to know about and somebody who is an independent observer. Because, homeowners... if you weren't an engineer and the pump had gone out at 3:00 o'clock in the morning, what would you have done? You know... `We'll get by with it.' So I feel you need to have somebody who is trained in maintenance who will come in and oversee it. Thank you. Sims: Thank you. Plitt: Judge, could I make a couple of comments? Sims: Sure. Vol q I_ Page as q 20 of 30 Plitt: I appreciate that, Eddie. One thing we did is on the Maintenance Amendment, we have put in there ... and Brazos County has always been favorable towards the homeowner doing it's own maintenance with the proper credentials. And so we have kept that ... that there is still four ways that they can do their own maintenance and that is built in. Certainly there are some out there that are qualified, I believe that. So that does not go away completely. I think that's a big thing. A lot of counties ... and I think there are 44 counties that have amended their OSSF permits to stop this particular house bill. So we're not the only person on this. And most of them have left in a few caveats where homeowners can take care of their own systems. So I personally believe that that's good and that there are people out there that do want to do that. Although they're not the majority for sure. The other thing is; I had a long conversation with one of the top OSSF people with TCQ in Austin concerning Mr. Davis' gallons per day ... which is really not part of this but I thought I might bring that up. Mr. James McCain with the OSSF contends that the table that they have in there albeit it's a bit old but he says that's still is very good as far as figuring out these gallons per day. He has no problem with it. I have to tend to agree with that man, he's been a lot of number of years and has seen a lot of situations. I heard a seminar on that last year and it really jumped out at me and I said, "Well maybe we should be looking into this. ", because it sounded pretty imperative. And after speaking with James, I feel like that we're probably still ok there. I think it should always be an option where people can put in a bigger system and probably get better treatment but what are they going to pay for? The bigger systems are going to cost a bit more. So I think the State minimums are still good there. But that's my, again, thoughts and opinion. Sims: Ok. Thank you. Yes sir? Lesikar: Don, I agree with you. On the average, 60 gallons is a good number. The question is ... and I've struggled for years ... on where do you draw the line on the number? That's why from the standpoint of usage, you have to figure out or you have to hold people accountable for what the number is on that permit. When you put a system in, it's designed for a specific volume of water. It's designed for a specific organic load. And so if you choose that ... I'd say 50% of the people are going to be happy. But how are you going to deal with the other 50 %? Vol °� � Page �0 21 of 30 Do I agree with the 60 gallons per person per day as far as usage? Yes. On the average, if you look across the country, people use about 60 gallons of water. In our household, I look at the numbers, it's 47 gallons a day per person in the house. But the problem you run into is that is assuming that you have water conserving fixtures in the house. So now you have to deal with these homes that do not have water conserving stuff in the house. Multiple laundry rooms. Multiple head showers. You have a system where one person in the house uses the... essentially you have service providers that have demonstrated that with the Jacuzzi tubs and large tubs in the house... they'll hold anywhere from 80 to 250 gallons of water. And one person in one bath can flood a three bedroom house and provide more than 240 gallons. So if you're going to stick with the 60 gallons, which is ok on the average, then you're going to have to put some kind of requirement in there that you look at the house plans. And if you look at the house plans and they have fixtures in that house. One guy said that they went into the house ... they had the multi -head shower deal. A water conserving shower head uses 2.5 gallons a minute. They had five, six shower heads in there. One guy said he measured the flow rate into the shower at 29.8 gallons a minute. It was ok because they only had a two inch floor drain and half the water ran down the hallway. But that's my point, if you have houses that are built that have flow rates that are at that rate, you have to take that into the zone. And so, the trouble is how you go with a low end where the person has a three bedroom house, one bathroom. Maybe a bathroom and a half versus a five bedroom house that has five bathrooms, a shower cone with a multi - head sprayer and a 250 gallon Jacuzzi tub? That particular house will kill the system because most of the aerobic units are tested at one gallon a minute. That is the flow rate that they are certified at. So how do you tell me a 29 gallon per minute shower tunnel or even five head shower one that's 12.5 gallons a minute is equal to a one gallon per minute flow through a treatment plant that it's certified at? So the question is, it's not about... an I agree with James, the average person is the one that is going to be at the 50 -60 but once you jump into custom homes and you start moving into the high -end homes, those systems have flow capabilities that'll blow any of that twelve year or twenty year ago system away. Because the volume's are too great. And so if you're going to stick with the 60 you have to go into something as to how do you deal with the deal. So that's all I would encourage... that you look at that. The other part is that regarding cost ... cost is one of those things that I've had a real trouble with also. The problem is ... there's two costs; there is Vol 9 Page 0-131 22 of 30 the initial cost to get in the thing and ihen there's a cost to drive it. So when you have an ET bed or you have an aerobic unit ... the ET bed, I'll use your numbers, $9,000.00. You have an aerobic unit, $4,800.00 and you find some guy to throw it for $3,600.00, maybe $5,000.00, $6,000.00 at a cost depending on how small that thing is ... if you have to pump it, keep a maintenance contract, and fix the parts ... you're at $1,000.00 to $1,200.00 a year in operation maintenance. So at that point a $9,000.00 system compared to that $6,000.00... within two and a half years, he's paid the difference. And so that's the thing you get into. It's not just the up -front costs, it's the long -term. And so the question you have to ask then is ... and is it the responsibility of the County to tell them that? No, not necessarily. But the reality is that you have to compare apples to apples. And so we're going to have to move away from the up -front costs to long -term costs in the education with the homeowner. But I don't say that the County should be telling them what the deal is. You just need to be saying, "Have you looked at the up -front vs. the long- term costs as far as dictation of technologies ?" Sims: Ok. Thank you. Yes sir? Davis: I have on quick comment. Don had talked about bigger systems producing better effluent... septic systems, in a way, can be looked at like bridges; if you design a bridge for the minimum it might fail if it has the right conditions under it. So the same thing with a septic system. If they fail, then again, we're not protecting public health and safety. So it's not a matter of producing better effluent ... it's a matter of producing a level of standard that meets everything below it. Because it's not ok for it to discharge partially treated effluent. Because if it's partially treated, it can't be disinfected. So when you look at it ... it's not better effluent, it's passing effluent or not passing. And it's just like what Bruce said ... if you look at the sheet I have on there in the back, on one of the pages it shows run off times. Typically, if you have two working people in the family, the kids are all in sports ... on the first page where it says, "Wastewater Quantity ". If you look in there, around 9:00 o'clock in the morning and 6:00 to 7:00 in the evening... that's, typically, when you're peek run -off times are. This is when all the waste water goes through the system ... or the majority of it. So, we have a septic system where the smallest unit that's produced and tested through standard 40... which is the aerobic units that we're talking about... can typically, handle about 60 gallons in one hour at a max. If you have two old style tubs like in the old houses where they had one to Vol I Page o�3 23 of 30 two baths, they had about (inaudible). They hold about 30 gallons of water. If you have two children and you have two people take a bath and drain 60 gallons of water through that plant the rest of the effluence for the rest of hour is untreated effluent. It is untreated. You have purged the clarifier and everything behind it is containing suspended solids. And if it's suspended solids, then it's going to take all the chlorine that's in that pump tank to oxidize the solids and then there's no chlorine left over for a residual. And if there's no residual, that means we're not killing the pathogens and the organisms that are in there that are not safe. That makes it not safe to spray. And so when we look at cheap again... and what Mr. Browne was talking about ... one of the reason that package plants, again, are not economically feasible is because when you look at cheap -cheap which allows the peak fun -off flows to go through the system untreated is a acceptable. Then, yeah, it's not economically feasible. But if you start putting some of the safe guards in there that I put on the front of this sheet right here ... like up- sizing the system, putting flow equalization in, start doing some of these lock outs where if the system is not functioning, you're going to be having like a mini municipal plant which is not that much in cost to insure the public health and safety. So when you start doing this, it increases the cost but if you start looking at it where you have a home ... like what he was talking about, averages in a home you can't consider average. When you're talking 200 people, you can talk averages. But four people or five people ... you really can't talk an average. How many teenagers spend an hour in the shower? Ok. Is that an average? That's not an average. That's reality. And so if you look at some of this right here that I've put in here as recommendations to the Court to consider as part of the proposed changes. This can protect the public health and safety and it can also protect any consumers in Brazos County so that they don't have these high service intervals and these high service costs or these aerobic units. And that's all I have to say. Sims: Thank you. Coleman: My name is Dave Coleman, I live at 1950 Peach Creek Road and I'm the College Station water services director. I just want to start off just simply by commending the Health Department and the Commissioners' Court for tackling this issue. Protecting public health and safety is what we're all about. And this is a difficult issue and commend you guys for taking it head on. Vol cl9 Page X33 24 of 30 I just wanted to answer your questions, Mr. Mallard, about package plants and would the State be willing to take those over. About two years ago, we applied for the sewer CCN for most of our ETJ. Sewer CCN has the ability to serve in a certain area. You get the right to serve a certain area. That application is still pending. We got a protest from the Wellborn Special Utility District and we're still trying to work that out. But part of that would be the option if a developer chose to install a package plant of the City taking ownership and operation of the package plant and running it. We even changed our ordinances to add a fee structure for people who are on package plants. So we've taken that measure. We do not yet have the sewer CCN. But that is the kind of thing we've been looking at. I believe as Dale was talking, the economics for that just aren't there yet. But I did want to answer your question. Mallard: Good. Coleman: And if you have any other questions, I'd be happy to address them. Mallard: There is some interest ... I'm not looking for a commitment... but there is some interest by the City of College Station to maybe look at package plants to be, obviously, set up outside the normal sewer system that you have now. Just hope that they could all have connectivity at some point. Coleman: Obviously, the ultimate goal is to get those all connected in to the system so that there's no package plants but... Mallard: In theory, you've now hooked into the sewer so is that package plant capable of being moved to another site to where it can be recycled in another subdivision. Coleman: Well, we just did that for Nantucket. You know where the new overpass is, you can see the little package over there. We just bought that package plant from the owner and connected just on the sewer line down the access road to Highway 6. So we ran a short connector from the lift station that use to pump into the package plant ... it now pumps into our sewer main. So that package plant is off line. Anybody want to buy it. So that is a perfectly feasible option once the development gets out that far and our system gets out that far. Mallard: Well that was the hope... ultimately the gain for the cities would be, obviously, that's a utility and the service that you do. And then they could also move those around and help this. And maybe eliminate the need for folks to have to have systems in their back yard. Vol q q Page a3� 25 of 30 Coleman: Yes sir. Anything else? Sims: Thank you. Appreciate it. Coleman: Thank you. Sims: Yes sir? Price: My name is William Price; I live over at south 2038. Gallego: I'm sorry, sir... William Price? Price: William. And I'd like to ask the Board members there; how many of you have an aerobic system? Nobody? Ok, I'd like (inaudible) this office a million times. Several years ago, I was fairly new to this aerobic system so that when an installer was at ... the lady I married had already built the house and everything... the guy was doing the last inspection and he says ... I guess he thought I was just the yard man around there or something ... he says "You know, you're going to have to get an inspection now, because my contracts out on this." I said, "It doesn't look to me like it takes a rocket scientist to look at this system. ", you know. He says, "Well whatever." So I got the literature, when over to Huntsville one week, got a certificate, came back and asked (inaudible) "What I gotta do now ?" He said, "Well now, you'll need to go to the installer to get a permit from them that you can inspect their system." (inaudible) So I called them up, "No, we don't do that no more." I got back to Don and said, "What do I do now ?" He said, "Well (inaudible) do it." I said, "Ok, been to school ... throw that out the window." Ok. So it comes, I find out by some other happenstance that there was a thing passed where ... and I guess it was 2510 ... that we get back to the homeowner maintenance and they made some changes in that. So it was. It says ok, so I go get... and you can... go ahead and get a certificate from the manufacturer at their facility under a training thing. Well, Don, what was the price of that? $4,000.00. Plitt: They could go up to that, yeah ... $3,500.00 maybe. Price: That cut me off at the knees again. So I says, "Hey, can't do anything." Next thing... so I stayed with the contract that I got with my maintenance guy. He ups my fees 50 %, right then. Now that was a result of some sort of political going on over in Austin. I don't know what it was. But I feel like people that have an aerobic system... you're not protected from these thieves ... the sky's the limit. They can drive where they want. You can't control who does. You're phone bill almost isn't controlled but, at least, Vol �1 � Page a35 26 of 30 you got some sort of commission that watches over the charges and everything. But an aerobic, you don't. So what is my way of life today? I preached to anybody that's going to build a house ... be careful. I don't advise aerobic. For one thing ... once you install, you're name appears in the Courthouse. And if you don't do it right, and you get a notice from Mr. Plitt's office and the police will be down on your neck. But I'm just telling you; I advise them that for the extra cost as this gentleman pointed out right here ... that you can put in what I call a drain field. You said, "Well, that won't perk." Well I came out of Florida, it didn't perk there because they had yellow sand and (inaudible). (inaudible). So what you have to do is you have to go in there with a back hoe and dig out a hole bigger than a third of this building and fill it with white sand. And that's your perk. So I just wanted to point out a few things that are not really going to be covered with this. But then I know noticed here that one change that they, the homeowner holding PCEQ Class E or higher certification... Plitt: That's correct. You can do. Price: You can do it? Plitt: Yes. Price: What else do you have to do to qualify for that? Plitt: Send me in maintenance reports. Price: Ok. Now that's a change from 2510, right? Plitt; Right. That's correct. Price: That's all I have. Sims: Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Plitt: Judge. Sims: Yes sir. Plitt: I'm sorry, one more comment. This was... Sims: That's what we're here for: Vol 6t q - Page o23� 27 of 30 Plitt: Ok. Good. Someone mentioned about a custom home builder and having these giant ... I think it was Bruce talking about the shower heads and such. To me... and I live in the city also and not on an aerobic system and probably never would be ... but to me the custom homebuilder has just done a disservice to the man or lady that he's building the home for if he doesn't tell them, "You know what, we're going to have... you've got me designing this giant shower ... we're going to have to upgrade the septic system." I may be naive but I'm thinking I'm going to hold that man responsible or woman responsible that told me that this was going to work. And it seem like it should fall on those people in some form or fashion. Sims: Do we have statutes doing that? Plitt: It would be... Davis: Your honor, if you adopt the amendments that I have right there on that front page that will address that and it will handle it clearly. Yes sir. Sims: Ok. Porter: I'm Carroll Porter, Glen Texas. I'm an installer too. The cost of these things is just going totally out of hand. The amendment he's talking about is going to run the cost up. It's getting to the point where the people can't afford them. They can't afford the system. They can't afford the house. Now we're going to two areas so now they have a $50,000.00 lot instead of $25,000.00 lot or $100,000.00 lot instead of a $50,000.00 lot. We're going to add all these other cost on top of it. It's to the point where you're shutting down the rural area from building. The more costs you add on ... it's killing them. It's killing everybody. People out there can't afford it. Right now, they can, at this point ... it's affordable. But if you go to two acres, you go to upsizing the system, you go to adding more fees on ... we got people that's making $50,000.00 a year that's not going to be able to be a homeowner, period. It's going to be totally out of reach. And I think that's going to be a shame when we sat here and regulated them plumb out of the opportunity to own a home. Sims: Ok. Any other comments? Yes sir? Bishop: My name is Colin Bishop, I live at 211 County Road 2320 in Woodville, Texas which is in Tyler County, about 2.5 hours east of here. I also wear many hats in this industry ... I actually cover the State of Texas as part of my territory for my job. But there's a whole lot of good discussions going on here tonight. And I would, obviously, admonish everybody to continue it. And I could probably spend the next hour or two covering each topic Vol gi Page a3 -7 28 of 30 in detail and provide some answers about but I don't want to take everybody's time tonight. But I would say on this cost issue, I have analyzed the cost of aerobic systems. I have analyzed the cost of other technologies and I tend to look at four things when you talk about cost. Those would be the up -front cost, the operational cost, the cost to the environment, and the cost to the public health. And those are four separate and distinct questions. When you look at those operational cost ... and I bet many people haven't actually calculated them out... on an aerobic system when you add disinfection like chlorination and you look at your spray field .... you typically could be look at over $100.00 a month it's costing that homeowner with partial placement, pump valves and things of that nature. So part of the disservice is there is no discussion on technology as Doctor Lesiker has indicated. So I would admonish everybody to look at the costs of these systems with up front long term and develop some sound policies that will address these questions. And the answers are out there but they just have to be looked for. And I don't know ... you're not going to solve it tonight, you're not going to solve it on Tuesday on the Commissioners' Court meeting. You probably would be wise to convene some type of panel and have a broad based panel with different groups on it to hammer out some of these issues. There's a lot of good ideas here but I think it's a real disservice to think that ... to our children and to the public health to think we're just going to spray stuff on the ground from. I mean most states don't even allow spray. They think it's a horrid practice. Clay County up in northern Texas just banned spray in their county with their local ordinance. They said, "We don't want it any more." So there's options out there ... they just need to be looked at. And I appreciate your time. Sims: Thank you. Further comments? Gallego: Kenny, did you want to ask for cards? Mallard: If anyone is interested in serving, we'll try to get a committee together ... if you have maybe a business card with your email address or just want to write it down. Gallego: I can just take it. I can just stand out front. Mallard: Ms. Gallego will be outside and will take that down and we'll try to come up with a committee and maybe have some more discussion on the items and work through the process. Vol 01 Page a3 29 of 30 Sims: I think this was good dialog though. It gives us an opportunity to hear from yall. And I'm very interested in this because I was a Commissioner before I became County Judge and I had to deal with this all the time ... if you will. I worked with the Health Department trying to ... we were in the infancy of the aerobic system when I was a County Commissioner. But it is difficult to address. I, for one ... and I understand dollars and cents when people are putting these systems in ... but I, for one, would much rather put a little bit more money into a system that's going to last me and easier to handle than I would to short change myself. I can give you a real good example and that's so many people... Audio ends mid - sentence. Vol 9 q Page a3 9 30 of 30 The foregoing minutes of the Commissioners Court Public Hearing held August 28th, 2007, have been examined and approved in open Court this the &tL day of 1&. , 20-LI, in Bryan, Brazos County, Texas. Duane Peters Commissioner, Precinct No. 2 aD:4r, t• Carey Cauley, Jr. Commissioner, Precinct 4 Attest: aren McQueen County Clerk x�� 6tJ � Lloyd Wassermann Commissioner, Precinct No. 1 Kenny Mal a d Commissione , Precinct No. 3 Vol qj _ Page a 40 BRAZOS COUNTY COMMISSIONER'S COURT DAY OF S , 20 D AM N (PLEASE PRINT) C" Aeu n /j — 7C R Y r , t/o ITT Site 11 C jJ4 1YQ-' Organization (PLEASE PRINT) Jo � 'b(0'3L0 �. teq( -1--h Peet. c.. otwUL� �j(6- Nd eS4ct g,'WL F S 7,4 77(-' , ,,.5 v rc7-/O l VOL.� PAGE 9 q/ Pg _ /_ of Pg „L o f J BRAZOS COUNTY COMMISSIONER'S COURT DAY OF , 20� A Name (PLEASE PRINT) i - 2(!�- p, (-, 0 1 s �,, a " - Organization (PLEASE PRINT) 1 � Uo GAY o Cs CSC ND Gou-�,L:l V s_9q PA �El 9q- x ks Pg ,-�?of2 BRAZOS COUNTY COMMISSIONER'S COURT a� DAY OF , 20 0) Name (PLEASE PRINT) Organization (PLEASE PRINT) .a �r(��,T r RA-),004* �vn 6r(y -- Proposed OSSF Changes Brazos County 1. Increase Minimum lot size to 2 acres (from 1 acre). 2. A separate total disconnect electrical box must be visible from the OSSF tanks. If an outside breaker box is visible from the OSSF tanks, this will serve as a total disconnect of power to the OSSF unit. Administrative Fees ($100.00) will be assessed to homeowners who have no chlorine /chlorine residual in the OSSF system. Also, a fee will be assessed to those homeowners who do not take care of mechanical failures (broken pumps, aerators, sprinklers, etc.) or tank pumping when told to do so by their maintenance provider. 4. In order to help fund a data entry position for entry of maintenance reports, maintenance contracts, and to follow up with problems explained in number 3, OSSF application fees will be raised to $300.00 (single family residential) and $500.00 (commercial). Homeowner Maintenance Amendment (A) All secondary treatment systems in Brazos County require maintenance contracts and testing and reporting to be submitted to Brazos County Health Department. (B) All contracted maintenance of an on -site sewage disposal system using aerobic treatment shall be conducted by a TCEQ registered maintenance company. There shall be no homeowner maintenance of OSSF's using secondary treatment unless the owner resides in the single family dwelling and: (1) the homeowner is a TCEQ registered maintenance provider for their property's aerobic treatment unit, or (2) the homeowner has been trained by an installer or manufacturer according to the requirements of HB 2510, or (3) the homeowner holds a TCEQ Class D or higher Wastewater Treatment license, or (4) the homeowner has been trained on the site by a certified maintenance provider. V j �p l_ P" 01ZL7 -_____ Fi � S Q �` k Brazos County Workshop - \. W 1.) OSSF permit (ATC) required before any groundbreaking. Any changes to building plans or site -plans must be pre - approved by BCHD. 2.) Residential sizing needs to be 150 Gallons per bedroom (all systems). 3.) No Automatic Irrigation of Dispersal Area regardless of method used. 4.) Installation Notification (Informs county of installation start time) up to 24 hours prior to installation for Impromptu inspections @ Brazos County's leisure. 5.) All Homeowners who elect to maintain their own septic system need some form of Training. Basic Maintenance Provider course and Class D wastewater course is available for now. A homeowner class is being developed as we speak. It could be worded so that Brazos County has the ability to approve such future classes provided they meet the same layout TCEQ had outlined for HB 2510 6 hour Homeowner Education. Homeowners' electing to maintain there own septic system may be subject to an "any -time impromptu inspection" as needed to promote public health and safety. Must renew there OSSF license every five years. 6.) All Commercial Septics used in conjunction with spray application must have: a.) flow equalization via micro dosing control (repeat cycle timer with 1 sec - 10min adjustable on time), pump, and dosing tank being sized @ .75 -1x the largest daily flow. b.) Telemetry/ Automatic notification of compressor failure and HWA c.) Compressor Alarm/failure to trigger a pump relay lockout. d.) Fencing around spray area with locked access and warning/advisory signage to the public. e.) Minimum sizing of 5 gallons per person per day. f.) Minimum grease trap size of 750 gallons for all kitchens. g.) Minimum Setback from property line of 20 FT h.) Minimum design to include 20 gallons per ton of A/C per day. i.) Flow measuring capability (ex. Water meter or ETM and cycle counter.) j.) Hydraulic & Organic loading rate to be calculated and verified with the larger of the two specifying system size. k.) All components upstream of flow EQ. be sized for peak flows and all downstream components be sized on average daily flow. Trash tank configuration to be minimum of lx daily flow or 2.5 x any peak flow. 1.) All systems operating @ 90% of design flow shall be monitored on at least a monthly basis. 7.) All Residential Systems used in conjunction with spray application must have: a.) Compressor Alarm/failure to trigger a pump relay lockout if no telemetry present (in working order.) b.) Flow equalization required for multiple showers /tubs, multiple clothes washers, shower tunnels/Body sprays(multiple head showers), all Jacuzzi tubs, and or Tubs greater than 5ft in length. Flow equalization via micro dosing control (repeat cycle timer with 1 sec - l Omin adjustable on time), pump, and dosing tank with .75 -1x the largest daily flow. c.) All components upstream of flow EQ. be sized for peak flows and all downstream components be sized on average daily flow. Trash tank configuration to be minimum of Ix daily flow or 2.5 x any peak flow (ex. 250 gallon Jacuzzi tub> 2.5x 250 = 625 gallon trash tank). 8.) All spray irrigation systems "surface application" found 2 consecutive times By County Inspectors/Maintenance providers without chlorine present (visual and/or residual) or that have a history of failing inspections (malfunctioning systems) may be required to convert from spray irrigation dispersal method to some form of "in ground dispersal method" (ex. Drip irrigation, LPD, Absorption trench, or Et Bed/Trenches) 9.) All Aerobic Treatment Units tested under standard 40 installed to service two homes or more shall have a minimum size of 1000 G.PD. WASTEWATER QUANTITY Daily Flow • Design T•TOILET D - DISH WASH 1 5 < L - LAUNDRY W- WATER SOFTENER • Actual 8- RATHBHOWER O -OTHER Flow Estimates 10 3 • People served • Square Footage , F Peak Flows MM 7 b 9 K 3 6 9 -M-, It • Daily - Runoff Period Tim. of D" • Weekly • Seasonal Daily Flow — looking at time period and runoff period (we hope they are not equal). If we go to design we need flow equalization. Design Actual Flow Estimates — people generate water — Remember the minimum flav P just an estimate. Not all homes will meet the assumptions used for the estimates. People served — life style — ( #) a60 gal /person /day with water saving; 75 gal /person /day without water saving. Square Footage Peak Flows Daily - Runoff Period — this is related to the period of time wastewater is expected to come from the facility. People tend to use water over a 16 hour period, 6:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. Students have a shift in 16 hours from 12:00 a.m. to 4:00 am. Know hours of operation to know work schedules — when people are home. Weekly — often associated with laundry day Seasonal Weekends Holidays DhMrlbution of mean household daily per capita indoor water use for 1,188 detaaogged homes (EPA 2002: Onsiie Wastewater Treatment System Manual) Does this guarantee 60 gallons a person? This chart shows that for 1,188 households there is a range in water usage. Not all meet the average. 60 gallons a person is just the average flow rate. If you design a system based on the average 1/z the population will exceed the system parameters. 60 and 75 are only averages (minimum state averages). Consider optimum situation. Understand flows coming out of homes. qa a4� Residential Wastewater Usage Texas 30 TAC Chapter 285 Usage Rate, Usage Rate, Gallons/Day Gallons/Day (without (with water water saving saving Type of Facility devices) devices) Single family dwelling (one or two bedrooms) - less than 1,500 square 225 180 feet. Single family dwelling (three bedrooms) - less than 2,500 square feet. 300 240 Single family dwelling (four bedrooms) - less than 3,500 square feet. 375 300 Single family dwelling (five bedrooms) - less than 4,500 square feet. 450 360 Single family dwelling (six bedrooms) - less than 5,500 square feet. 525 420 Greater than 5,500 square feet, each additional 1,500 square feet or 75 60 increment thereof. a These rates are based on 60 or 75 gallons of water a day, depending on the use of water saving devices, per person. The number of people in the house is the number of bed rooms plus 1. �q7 Wastewater Flow Characteristics Hours of operation influence the flow rate and especially the shock load factor. The runoff rate is the period of time to expect wastewater to be coming from the facility. Table 3-4 Page 3 -17 Shock Flow' lbs. BOD,t Runoff Load Type of Facility (gal/cap /day) (cap /day) (hours) Factor Airports - per passenger 5 .020 16 low Airports - per employee 15 .050 16 low Apartments - multiple family 75 .175 16 medium Boarding Houses 50 .140 16 medium Bowling Alleys - per lane (no f)od) 75 .150 8 medium Campgrounds - per tent or travel trailer site - central bathhouse 50 .130 16 medium Camps - construction (semi - permanent) 50 .140 16 medium Camps - day (no meals served) 15 .031 16 medium Camps - luxury 100 .208 16 medium Camps - resort - night and day, with limited 50 .140 16 medium plumbing Churches - per seat 5 .020 4 high Clubs - country (per resident member) t00 .208 16 medium Clubs - country (per nonresident member present) 25 .052 16 medium Courts - tourist or mobile home parks with 50 .140 16 medium individual bath units Dwellings - single family 75 .170 16 medium Goldstein and Moberg, 1973 (� Hours of operation influence the flow rate and especially the shock load factor. The runoff rate is the period of time to expect wastewater to be coming from the facility. Table 3-4 Page 3 -17 Flow Equalization /Surge Tank Moderates flow from facility Determine peak to be moderated • Daily • Weekly Improves treatment by downstream components How do you deal with peak flow? Moderates flow from facility Determine peak to be moderated Flow Equalization Tank Daily Weekly Time dosing improves treatment by downstream components Shower TumelsBody Sprays Jacuzzi Tubs /Oversize Tubs Things that can heir) with flow 1. Homeowner education 2. Some systems have restriction devices. 3. Time dosing allows you to go to design values. Flow Equalization Tank Alarm Float Notification On/Of Float Redundant Off Float Septic Tank Flow Equalization Tank Fix this figurel Does the upstream component have flow equalization — No. So, it must be sized up relative to peak flow. Downstream components may have specific requirements for flow equalization. Flow Controlled by Surge Tank Day Daily Flow (gal) Timed Dose (gal) Volume in Tank (gal) Sunday pm 1000 Monday 250 350 900 Tuesday 200 350 750 Wednesday 150 350 550 Thursday 200 350 400 Friday 250 350 300 Saturday 700 350 650 Sunday 700 350 1000 Amounts vary. By equalizing the flow the variation in flow is controlled.