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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2007-06-25-5:30PM-WORKSHOP SESSIONBRAZOSCOUNTY BRYAN, TEXAS NOTICE OF MEETING AND AGENDA . t° D BRAZOS COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT WORKSHOP SESSION --) 1: 05 ,s THE COMMISSIONERS COURT OF BRAZOS COUNTY WILL MEET IN A WORKSHOP SESSION ON MONDAY 25 JUNE 2007 AT 5:30 P.M. IN ROOM 102 OF THE BRAZOS CENTER, 3232 BRIARCREST DRIVE, BRYAN, TEXAS. 1. Call to Order 2. Discussion regarding road improvements in Woodview Estates (Precinct 3). 3. Adjourn The Brazos County Courthouse is wheelchair accessible. Handicap parking spaces are available. Any request for sign interpretive services must be made two business days before the meeting. To make arrangements. call (979) 361 -4102. Office of the County Judge • 300 East 26" St. • Suite 114 • Bryan, Texas 77803 • Fax: (979) 361-4503 q5 191 I of 34 COMMISSIONERS' COURT WORKSHOP SESSION June 25, 2007 The Commissioners' Court of Brazos County, Texas met in a Workshop Session in Room 102 of The Brazos Center at 3232 Briarcrest Drive in Bryan, Brazos County, Texas, beginning at 5:30 p.m. on Monday June 25, 2007, with the following members of the Court present: Randy Sims, County Judge, Presiding; Lloyd Wassermann, Commissioner of Precinct 1; Duane Peters, Commissioner of Precinct 2; Kenny Mallard, Commissioner of Precinct 3; Carey Cauley, Commissioner of Precinct 4; Karen McQueen, County Clerk. absent Attached is a list of the citizens and officials in attendance. Attached is a transcript of the meeting. Vol q5 Page 18a 2 of 34 BRAZOS COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT Road Improvements in Woodview Estates (Precinct 3) June 25th. 2007 Sims: Thank you very much for coming to our Commissioner's Workshop Session on Monday the 25th of June 2007 at 5:30 p.m.; room 102 of the Brazos Center, 332 Briarcrest Drive, Bryan, Texas and I will open this meeting and call it to order. The second item on our agenda is discussion regarding road improvements in Woodview Estates, (Precinct 3). Mr. Mallard? Mallard: Thank you Judge and Commissioners. I appreciate you coming to the meeting today. I think it is kind of important for maybe the next process. We have had two meetings of the Homeowner's Association members out there and we may need that podium, Mike, just because ... to let you know; this is more of a formal process than what we had before. So in this meeting, we do have to take a recording and keep up with that as well as if you would like to speak we're happy to do that but we need your name and address so we can keep up with all of this. That's part of this process that we have to go through. We're not trying to intimidate anybody but that's the legal process that we have to go through with our meetings, so we appreciate your help on that as far as visiting with us. This is kind of our Phase, we've got our subdivision... we've talked about the situations with it being a private road, it's public access but is actually not something that the County does maintain. And so it's up to the membership or the owners around that to maintain that road as it stands right now. And trying to see if there is an avenue to do with it. There were several things that we had talked about; as far as this is one where it is in the subdivision improvement road of the Transportation Code where mainly for health, safety, and welfare where you can, basically, the County can get involved on some roadways. So we have investigated that and Mike (inaudible), the President of your Association has worked with it and we have tried to see what we can come up with. So we wanted to come together today to see if there are some other avenues. We have looked at the numbers and tried to come up with ... but they are pretty staggering and they're getting more and more all the time. Our Road and Bridge Department has basically at least doubled the cost of what it cost to build roads these days. So we're having to increase our budget in order to reflect that. And see, that is obviously what is Vol 15 Page 193 3 of 34 happening here. I think the quote that was gotten from Knife River was $639,000.00 to do about a mile of roadway. There are a couple of options that we have talked about back and forth. I think several members preferred to go ahead and stay with the whole road which is about a mile. But we have even talked about just doing the entrance road which is where the culvert is ... one issue that we're looking at ... if that failed then that would basically preclude anyone from getting in or out of the subdivision. We did do a recount. Last time we assumed there were about 30 lot owners but from my count it shows that are 37 lot owners in the subdivision. Of course we've got the one subdivision set up with the Homeowners Association and then there are other individual properties on the outside of that loop. But all total it was about 37 that we have. As far as other things that I've looked at, as far as road grants; I've tried to look and see if there is anything that might qualify this particular subdivision for that. I have not gotten an answer yet. I've actually started trying to talk to the folks at the Council of Government. I know that they have a grant writer there and they may be a little more familiar. I've been getting on the Internet and just looking up. There is grants.gov which is federal grants and when I typed in `Transportation', I got just about everything but transportation in there. So I need to find somebody who has a lot more smarts on getting on the Internet and trying to look those up to see. I don't know what there will be but I didn't find anything in my first attempts at trying to run that down. So I'm kind of running aground but basically to see what questions yall have at 37 we did look at some of the payout number. One of the options to set this is up is where it could be the owners or lot owners could pay it out. Even figuring out a month/year program, a three year program would look at about $479.00 per month, a four year payout would be around $360.00 a month, and a five year payout would be $288.00 dollars a month. McLeod: I'm sorry, what was that figure? Mallard: Five year would be $288.00 dollars a month which is 60 months you're looking at. So it's still a lot of money. So, Judge, if you'd like ... I don't know what other process other than if you'd like to open it up for questions of the Commissioners and try to answer some of the thoughts that yall have or questions that yall might have. Sims: I tell you what, let me just ask the audience here if they would like to step up and make comments about it. I think you covered it pretty well Vol GO Page 194 4 of 34 because it is going to take and investment of the owners of the property out there to be able to get this road upgraded. But I would just open it up to yall if yall would like to ask questions or make comments... whatever you would like to do. Yes sir. Name and address, please. Shirk: Bill Shirk. S- H- I -R -K. 10012 Woodview Drive. Is five years as far as the County will go? Will they go six years, will they go seven? And what about a bond? I don't know much, 1 was just looking in ... what about a bond for this? Sims: A bond by way of what? Shirk: (inaudible) you always see everything getting paid for by bonds nowadays, by Counties and Cities and that. Sims: Right. Shirk: How does it work? Do you know? I don't know. Sims: Well I don't think we can, I don't think we could sell a bond to go out and pave roads for a very small population base. Shirk: Just a question. Sims: Yeah. Shirk: But is five years as far as you'll go. Can you go six years? Can you go seven ... make it more reasonable? Sims: Probably could but 1, we've got X number of dollars to spend on roads. Shirk: I know. Sims: And we're trying to recoup as much as we can. Since this is a private road ... does not even belong to Brazos County. And trying to recoup money as quickly as possible. Mallard: I'll give yall, maybe, a little more information while you're trying to think about that. In the County, there are 332 road miles of paved county road. These are County maintained roads. County roads that are unpaved, which would be gravel road sections, there's 144 miles. And then in private roads, there is 111 of private roads that are out in the County that are similar to yalls where they are maintained by the members that live on Vol G 5 Page 195. 5 of 34 those roads. So it let's you know that yall aren't alone as far as having a category of those roads that are out there that other subdivisions have different methods ... that there are still 144 roads that are actually maintained by the County and public access but have not been paved as well. And they are up to standards as far as a gravel road would be but they are not paved. So we have other roads besides yalls lot of them ... road miles. I think yalls is approximately a mile or maybe a little more than a mile of roadways to have. Shirk: So say we don't do the whole thing and we just go up and take care of the culvert ... our main problem getting in and out of it. Will the County still go five years on that? Mallard: Well, I don't know. Like I said, it's something ... I don't know that we ... technically this is a workshop so it's not something that we could all come together and vote on. Shirk: Right. These are questions we have. Mallard: We can discuss those avenues... and I'm going to be taking notes as well as Ruth McLeod will be taking notes on those things and then we can look and see. Then if we come to a regular meeting to look at then that's something we could actually vote on. But it's kind of difficult in the public arena ... it doesn't give us the deal ... we can't just walk up, get a bunch of folks to come over the house and talk about those issues. 'Cause it always has to be out in a public meeting like we have today. But that is something that we will write down to see. Obviously, if we could do it for those roads then we probably could look at it. But the longer we push it out, the more of the present value that it cost because, obviously, there's no interest involved in this. There is no guarantee that you as the owner, that yall have, there's no guarantee that yall are allowed to give to us to say that you will pay it. And if for some reason... for whatever reason... you can't find the money or do it ... if yall decide not to pay then the County is still on the hook for that money. And once again, there's no interest paid on it. A lien can be filed on the property but it will sit there until and when that property sells. Unless the homeowner or the owner of the property could pay. But if not, then the only avenue the County has to collect their money is when that property sells. And that may be for someone's lifetime. It may be years. Shirk: Something else we'll have to do is get a hold of the paver and see if they are willing, you know, what price they will charge us if we do the whole thing. Vol q5 Page l8 (� 6 of 34 Mallard: That's right. Sims: Thank you. Mallard: I think this lady in the green shirt. Sims: Yes ma'am. Schoonover: Bobbie Schoonover. 9978 Woodview Drive. I understand the issues of having so many private roads but are they as in bad shape as what we are. We have one way in and one way out. It's an urgent situation, as we've been told, because the culvert situation could collapse. So, my concern is, is that we're going to be trapped. And how are we going to furnish services to our area if we're in a situation where we can't get in or out? And no one can get in or out to us? Sims: Good comment. Schoonover: Because there's a good ... there's a huge rut down the middle of the road that is tearing our tires up. You know, it's not safe. Peters: I can tell you that in Precinct 2, I've got some private roads that go into subdivision that are in worse condition than those. And our problem is that ... we don't have enough money to upgrade the roads that we are committed to maintain. And nearly every day I have somebody call me that lives on one of these 80 miles of unpaved roads that are in my precinct and tell me that, "Why isn't my road paved ?" You know, "Why don't you have the money to pave mine ?" I had a lady call me last week and said, "I've lived on this road for 30 years and I want it paved." And we don't have the money ... I mean it would break the County, just to pave the 80 miles in my precinct much less the remainder of the road. I mean, I'll tell you, I have a real problem because I'm having to deal with constituents too that were already maintaining the road but we haven't upgraded it to a paved road. And I have a real problem about going out to a private road and bringing it up to a paved condition. My constituents would probably hang me. I'm telling you, I catch it all the time because of the condition of roads and they want them paved. Schoonover: And I'm not disagreeing with that because I understand we're all County taxpayers and we all have ... but we're just looking to see for our benefit, is to see what matching help we might be able to get. You know, that's ... $600,000.00 is an awful lot of money ... is not going to increase the value of our homes, we would never get that money back... other than Vol 9 C) -Page 197 7 of 34 it being on a paved road. And we just don't want to just fix the culvert and not have the benefits of it. I wanna get it fixed. I'm not asking for something free. Peters: And, of course, the other side of that is that if the County...the taxpayers as a whole ... pay for that, and it doesn't increase the value of your place; and then one day somebody sells it and it doesn't bring that $20,000.00 or whatever it's going to cost per lot ... the County would never recoup. I mean I've got to look out for all taxpayers too. I mean I've got taxpayers that live on County maintained roads that aren't paved and they're telling me the same thing that you are expect they're on a maintained road. It's just that we haven't brought them up to that paved condition. Sims: Ok. Yes ma'am. Newton: I have a question. The gentleman in the back, he was kind of... Sims: Name and address, please. Newton: Oh sorry. Ann Newton. I'm at 9541 Woodview. The gentleman in the back was making kind of a good point ... it was something we thought about too. You know at $15,000.00 or $20,000.00 a person, you're going to have to live there for a really long time to recoup the equity that you're going to lose. You have to bring it up to County standards in order to make everybody pay in, right? Because as an HOA, we're having a hard time making even everybody in our neighborhood pay to keep the road graded. So did we look at upgrading it to just be a County maintained gravel road? I mean does it have to be paved in order for the County to maintain it? Can we do all these upgrades and not pave it. Would that save us money? Sims: It does have to be brought up to standards. Newton: Right. Sims: Are they gravel and main - ...certainly. Newton: Is the cost that we've been quoted just bringing it up to standards or is that standards and paved? Sims: No, it doesn't have to be paved. Newton: Ok. So that could make (overtalking) Vol q ,5 Page ( U 8 of 34 Sims: Because we still have a lot more gravel roads in Brazos County as it is. Newton: Right. I just wondered it that was an option. I mean I know everybody wants the dust to settle and all that stuff but... Sims: I don't know what the cost of it would be but that is something that you could do. Peters: And I'm trying to think now, I can't remember what seal coating a road is. Do you remember right off hand Gary? Arnold: They've got a quote of $1.77 a square yard. Peters: Just seal coat? Arnold: Yeah. And that's a competitive... that's a real good number. Peters: Well John had sent me, about seal coating a road ... you know, what the cost was a mile. Arnold: Oh, about $160,000.00. Peters: That's what I was thinking, $160,000.00. Newton: What does seal coat mean? Male: That's the difference between the gravel road and the top (inaudible) a standard County road. Sims: Yeah. Newton: Ok. Sims: Yes sir? Your name? Deike: Mark Deike, 9706 Woodview. I just have a few questions here and we're supposed to bring up questions so we can, hopefully, go get answers to these. First question was; is there codes in place to prevent this from happening to other individuals in our County? The plat shows `public easement', and I guess, to me, that's a little bit misleading. So when someone tells you that, "Well once you have the taxpayers, the County will take over." And so that's kind of misleading to us to begin with. Now it's not by yalls fault, I'm just saying... Vol I 9 of 34 Sims: Yeah. Deike: ...are there development codes in place that insure people are being brought up, you know, not being mislead in any shape, form, or fashion? The other question I had was Forest Lakes Phase III, I think is on our outside loop? (Inaudible) Deike: Ok. Phase II and I all have paved roads. And so my question is; how did they develop Phase III and not have to bring all the roads up in front of Phase III up to the same standards of II and I? Newton: Good question. Mallard: Forest Lakes Estates? Deike: Forest Lakes Phase III. Newton: Forest Lakes Phase II. It's Phase IL Yeah. Deike: Phase IL Forest Lakes Phase IL The whole outside of our loop is Forest Lakes Phase II. How did they get those under the same development and not have to meet the same standards of the developmental time frame? Because that was my understanding of Forest Lakes was all developed and their roads were all paved because they were originally brought up to County standards. So, all of these properties over here... Mallard: See if I can get to it. Deike: Right here. Mallard: Oh, I'm sorry. Deike: Right here is Forest Lakes, Phase II as well as this here and this was I. So, you know, Forest Lakes ... I'm not sure what phase is up to this point where it is paved ... that was brought up to code. But what about the ... oh I'm sorry... Mallard: No it isn't paved there. Deike: ...up to this point. Up to this point was brought up to code. Mallard: Right. That's correct. Vol q 5 Page J 9 D 10 of 34 Deike: But what, how did this part of Phase II get left out of that developmental cost? Newton: I think they didn't develop it at the same time and I don't know if it has something to do with time but I know our realtor told us we're in Forest Lakes Phase (inaudible). Mallard: That road, that whole subdivision from the County road, which is where the pavement ends ... this was all developed by Mister Mahoney back in I want to say the `70s. Sims: 80s. Mallard: In the 80s. At that time you could develop and have a private road. Deike: Right. Mallard: And if you so designate that as a private road, which he did, then the County did the public easement... just like it is. And that's what yall have inherited. Deike: Right. Mallard: Is that first edition. Now when this loop was purchased and they replatted that, it fell under the same standards. Because the same information was written on the replat of the inner loop. And so that's how it occurred. Because it still was designated as a public easement... Deike: But is that not considered a new development? Mallard: No. Deike: Because that was my understanding why they got away with calling this public easement was just because at the time frame there was no code that required developers to bring it up to a County standard road. Mallard: No, because all that person developed was this donut. This road was not a part, is not a part of that development. Just the land inside this area. So that's the loophole. Deike: Ok. I guess my question is how does Forest Lakes Phase II get around having to provide roads to that phase? Develop these lots, call it a new development and not have to provide enough easement... Vol q5 Page �� I 11 of 34 Mallard: I don't know that they're calling it a new development. Because there hasn't been any kind of plat done on that. Deike: Well they're Forest Lakes Phase II and they have access to the same (inaudible) as the rest of them. (overtalking) Peters: I think what you're referring to is the part that's all paved in Forest Lakes? Deike: Well it's attached to the same subdivision. Peters: Right. Deike: And my question is; is that ... how can they just carve out or just plat something and not have to provide access to it and call it part of the same subdivision and not have to bring it up to the same standards as the rest of the development? Peters: The other portion of Forest Lakes was brought up and County took over maintenance. Mr. Mahoney never brought that up to standards to where the County would take over maintenance. That's why the County has never maintained that is because he never brought it up and it was never accepted for maintenance. Today ... I mean there were a lot of things that went on because there weren't rules in place or the legislature didn't allow Counties to do certain things. Today, what we do to try to keep this from happening is that when a developer goes out and develops, we require a road bond. A construction bond to be put up. And they have to bring that road up to County standards and if they don't, the County then has that bond to go back against that developer to finish it up and bring it up to standards. That wasn't in place at the time that that was developed back in the 80s. Deike: When did Forest Lakes Phase II go into (inaudible). Arnold: It was platted in 1980. Deike: Ok. I guess I'm just confused on how the gap was between the same part of Forest Lakes and then just another group of (inaudible). Sims: Name pleases sir. Name and address, please. Vol q5 Page 1OIA 12 of 34 Schoonover: Calvin Schoonover, 9978 Woodview Drive. When did that go into effect about the developer having to bring the road up to standard? Mallard: If a public, in other words, if they want it to be a County maintained road, then they would have to bring it up to standard. That's always in there. Mr. Mahoney did not want it to be ... I mean I wasn't there when it occurred but look at it ... Mr. Mahoney did not want it to be a County maintained road. Because he didn't want to pay to build the road to that standards. And at that time, that was a legal decision that he could make. Knowing that that was his development and he could develop it in that manner. And so that's what he did. Schoonover: Are we talking about two different areas, because this here development only came into development in 2003? Mallard: The inside of that loop. Not the road. The road is not a part of the redevelopment or replat of a portion of that property. The whole end of it was developed back in, I think... Arnold: 1980. Mallard: Then, a new developer came in and bought that acreage inside that loop and subdivided that and replatted just that portion. The road was not part of it. But we still... even on that replat, put in all the information stating that this is a public access but a not a County maintained road and will not be until and when that road is brought up to County standards. So, and it's a legal document. Deike: So I guess to make sure everybody is not confused; Mahoney developed the entire area and then someone else came in and bought Woodview, which is the inside loop. Mallard: That's correct. Male: (inaudible) Mallard: Yes. Deike: And the only differentiation between... Newton: And T. C. Carmes. Deike: Right. And the only differentiation between the Forest Lakes subdivision which has paved road and the Forest Lakes Phase II was because the developer at that time just chose to or was there not a bond in place to Vol a5 Page 0 3 13 of 34 enforce them when they developed Forest Lakes to bring those roads up to... Mallard: There was no...no bond was required because it wasn't going to be a County maintained road. Deike: For the entire Forest Lakes subdivision? Mallard: No. Arnold: For that section. Mallard: For this Phase II section. Deike: Ok. Well I mean, the question I'm bringing up is if that section was tagged with the rest of it, how did that section get overlooked? That's the question I'm just trying to bring up. And I may come to you and ask for help on how do we go back and figure out if when Forest Lakes Phase I was developed and if there was a bond pulled to insure all of those roads got brought up to standard, how did the other section of road get overlooked if it was all developed as, brought up to standard at the same rime. Schoonover: Especially after the developers have changed hands. Because Mr. Mahoney is no longer... Mallard: With us. Schoonover: ...with us. And so we've got Rostell Chapman and Todd Carnes that developed this and we're left out in the cold. I mean we either have to come up with this money or ... I mean how could we have just been overlooked and what's going to keep other areas of the County to be held to this ... the same thing done to them? I'm sorry, Bonnie Schoonover again. Mallard: It wasn't overlooked. I mean it was addressed and it was decided that, you know, a developer today and develop private roads. There are private roads that are developed. And they usually set up Homeowners Associations to deal with that. But it can be developed as a private road. And that's still in place today. Schoonover: They just earmark it that way when they develop it? Mallard: Yes ma'am. And it's addressed, it's all done in the platting process and at that point, it's not going to be a County maintained road. It may be a Vol a5 Page 14 of 34 "...public access road... ", but it's to be privately maintained. And so that's still a possibility. Even inside the city limits of...I think, I'm not sure which one but I know there are some "...gated communities..." and some of those are private roads. Sims: Private roads. Yeah, they are private roads. Mallard: Inside the city limits as well. Deike: One thing I'm also confused about is differentiation between a private road and public access. If we're calling it public access, we can not restrict who comes in and out. Because if it's a private road, we can put a toll gate up at the front and keep any builders and keep anyone from coming in (inaudible). Arnold: That's not a private road. It's supposedly dedicated right of way. It's, it's not maintained by Brazos County, City of Bryan, TxDOT, College Station ... it's not maintained by a government entity. Deike: I guess my question is, I would hope that in the future that those types of dedications would be looked at a lot closer. Because we now have a road that we have to pay for and we can't restrict who drives on it. They want to come in there and drive in and out there with 15 cement trucks, they can drive in and out and we can't do anything about it. We'd have to file a law suit and sue them for damages to have any kind of recourse for damages to our culverts, our roads. And it's kind of creating a problem in just saying... you can't say anything about it but anybody can do whatever they want to damage your property. It's not your property but you got to keep up with it. Mallard: Uh -huh. (positive) Deike: And I would expect that in the future that there is something in place to keep this from happening to somebody else. On to my other question; can the obligations of these cost be passed on to future property owners or is going to be handled (inaudible) the properties that... basically if we signed up for it right now, we have to come up with the balance, in full, before we can pass our properties on to anybody else. That's one question I think we did ask... Sims: You talking about the lien? Deike: The lien (inaudible) Vol 9 5 Page N5 15 of 34 Sims: The lien would have to be paid off, yes. Deike: Ok. Long -term financing ... right now yall have offered up, I guess, up to five years. Bill brought up, you know, what's the other options to make (inaudible) Mallard: Those are really just my calculations. Deike: Right. I understand. Mallard: I haven't talked to the rest of the Commissioners or the Judge about it. Deike: These are just numbers divided by months and this is a preliminary stage. But just questions that, hopefully, we can go get answers to. Can we get a waiver to bring it up to a lower standard or a previous standard of like Forest Lakes was developed to? Forest Lakes was brought up to gravel road. Then the County came in and (inaudible) it. That's what they did. And Ms. Newton already brought that up as well. Mallard: The County came and paved it but it was a petition paving and so there was the homeowners or the owners in that neighborhood did pay... Deike: A portion or all? Mallard: ...well... Deike: A portion. Mallard: ...it was probably more of a portion of it. Deike: And, you know, that's another question; can we get a waiver to bring it up to the standards that when this was developed? You know? Bring it up to the standards at that point. At that point, you know, the easement was sixty foot, not seventy. The road width was not twenty, it was probably like fifteen. And I'm just throwing these numbers out but I'm sure these things have widened over the years. There's liability issues, utility issues, but getting a waiver to make the road smaller and less costly. And the other thing is I would just hope that in any process that we try and consider and solve this issue is that we consider the fact that in the last four years... just kind of backing up the math here ... our sub -, this area has contributed $85,544.00 in County taxes in the last four years. I would hope that that would go some distance. Vol 5 Page [9b. 16 of 34 Granted, I understand we drive on other roads but, you know, I would hope that that would be considered as part of any waivers or any other things to consider. That's all I got. Thank you. Sims: Thank you. Questions? Comments? Yes sir. Hoosier: Tim Hoosier, 9740 Woodview. If we were to bring the road to the blacktop up to past the creek ... you know and take care of all that and build it to our County... whatever you guys spec it out to be ... if we were to figure out a way for us to pay for that, would the County then maintain that part of it? Mallard: In other words, the entrance road ... I'll call it for lack of a better term... Hoosier: Yes sir. From where the blacktop ends to the "Y" up there. Mallard: Right. If it's brought to... Hoosier: If we took care of that and brought it to your specifications, if there was a way we figured out how we could do it ... we brought it up to your specs ... would you maintain it after that? Mallard: Yes sir. If it's brought up to County standards. And that's part of it ... that the County would take over (inaudible) Hoosier: Just up to that "Y" Mallard: Yes sir. Hoosier: Ok. If you're taking it over, what would you do to it? Mallard: What would we do to it? Hoosier: What would your (inaudible) Mallard: We would maintain it as a... Hoosier: A gravel road or would you blacktop it? Mallard: Well if it was blacktopped then we maintain it as a blacktop road. Or a... Hoosier: Ok. Well I'm talking about just doing the gravel work... Mallard: Oh. Vol q,5 Page [ q1 17 of 34 Hoosier: ...put new culverts. Getting some ditches dug in there where that water will run out. Female: (inaudible) Mallard: I guess I can't answer it a 100% because I'm a little concerned that, technically, our standards for roads don't do that. And this may be the first time we've ever broached building a road to gravel standards and not what our standard is not which is a paved road. And so that's the only problem I have now is how do we deal with that and whatever we do for you, we have to be willing to do for all these other folks and homeowners in the County as far as doing thing. So... Hoosier: Right. But if we brought that ... I don't know how long a space is that? Yall may be... Mallard: It's about a third of a mile. Hoosier: Ok. If we did that part of it, and we brought it up to your specs and it was blacktop ready... would the County blacktop it and then maintain it up to that point. Mallard: Ah... Hoosier: See, basically, that's really the only bad place we have. The rest of it, you know, a maintainer can take care of that... couple loads of gravel every year or two will take care of any of the other problems. Sims: Well why don't you ... I understand where you're coming from, but we will maintain it for what it is. If it's gravel, we'll maintain it for gravel if you bring it up to County specs. Hoosier: Ok. All right. Sims: If it's not hard surface, we won't hard surface it. Hoosier: Ok. Thank you. That (inaudible) questions. Male: Judge Sims... Sims: Yes sir. Male: If we did that on the whole road ... if we bring it up to gravel standards verses a paved standard? Would you maintain it as a gravel road? Vol Page 18 of 34 Sims: No, because I'm asking them ... they would have to bring it that portion of it up to the `Y', to County standards and seal coat it. Was that what you were saying? You started out with just gravel. Hoosier: Well what I propose we do and I think it's something we can all afford to do or figure out a way to do it ... and I'm not talking about using these great big contractors and all that. It's just like the price the gave us is $86,000.00 just to move their equipment in there ... do you know how much equipment you can move for $86,000.00? Sims: I would hope... Hoosier: A couple hundred dozers, maybe two hundred maintainers... and you haven't even gotten to $60,000.00 yet. Sims: I would hope there would be a bunch of equipment out there, yes. Hoosier: That's what I'm saying, you know, these prices... Sims: I understand. Hoosier: ...(inaudible) these people. You can get private people come out there and get with the Commissioner and find out what ... you tell us what we've got to have. Come out there and show us. You know? And we'll buy you lunch or something. Tell us what you want us to put down out there with somebody that we choose to build the road up to that `Y' and us get it to gravel standards... top notch gravel standards and you've already said you would maintain it as a gravel road after that. Sims: That's correct. If it is to County standards, right. Hoosier: Because, because at what these other figures come out to ... even talking to my real estate and another real estate today, we could live there ten or fifteen more years and you would still take a loss or your property. You know, it's not four or five hundred thousand dollar homes in there. You know, they're not going to... Newton: They're not going to up in value ... not that fast. Hoosier: No. And everybody in here ... I mean I don't know ... I moved out there, you know, because it was peaceful, quite ... it didn't bother me it was a dirt road, heck I grew up on a dirt road. Sims: Right. Vol 15 Page _ l 19 of 34 Hoosier: And I don't mind maintaining it. I don't mind paying my dues every year to take care of that ... it doesn't bother me a bit. But I think there is a way that we can figure out a way to get a bunch of that done. If yall will take care of it afterwards. Newton: That would be a happy medium. Like you say, if we can just get that entrance and culvert and all, I think that's really the most important thing. Sims: Where's the culvert, Kenny? Can you show me that? Mallard: It's kind of hard to see ... this is a pond right here... Sims: Right. Mallard: ...and that creek runs up right through here so the culvert is right here. Sims: Ok. Mallard: And it's a big one. Male: Large... about five foot, four foot. Mallard: And the bottom is rusted out so it's due to be replaced. Sims: Ok. I'm asking the question because I haven't been out there in a while. Mallard: Sure. Newton: We'd love for you to come (inaudible). (overtalking) Sims: Is this all gravel? Mallard: Yes sir. Sims: Ok. Mallard: The pavement... you can see kind of where it's gray, right about to this point right here. Hoosier: Right. Right there... Mallard: Is where the pavement ends. Vol � 5 Page aCO 20 of 34 Sims: Right here? Hoosier: Yes sir. Mallard: Yeah. Newton: Yeah. Mallard: That's the County road stops right there. Male: Just past that driveway. Mallard: Then around that bend. We've also got ... the entrance road is sixty feet in width but I believe one of the owners on the inside of that is willing to work with us on, I guess, ten more feet because we need to get that... especially for that culvert to get that road widened a little bit on that part. On the inside of the loop when it was platted, it was required to have another five foot on the inside. Of course, the rest of the land on the outside wasn't being replatted so there was no requirement on that. So now we have 65 feet or the loop portion as far as road surface to work with. But on the entrance road, it's still at 60 feet. Sims: So it'd be about a third of a mile then to upgrade that road and bring it to County standards. Mallard: That entrance road. Hoosier: What is the County standard for that gravel road? How wide does it have to be? Mallard: County standards now are 70 feet to get the drainage ditches in and the road surfaces... so it's a 70 foot right of way. It takes that. If it doesn't then your gravel all gets washed away and... Hoosier: I take that back, that ain't the kind of gravel road I grew up on. Mallard: It does. And we still have some roads that are 50 foot roads but... Hoosier: One I grew up on wasn't 50 foot. Arnold: We require 22 foot driving surface, 3 foot shoulders on each side and then it tapes down to dirt and then it starts the ditches. Hoosier: But the actual gravel we would have to put on there would be how wide? Vol 115 Page X) I 21 of 34 Arnold: Twenty eight feet wide. Hoosier: Twenty eight, ok. Arnold: For a 22 foot driving surface. And that's for safety. Mallard: Also you have how many inches of base is it? Arnold: Six inches of base (inaudible) Hoosier: Let's say we got it up to like 25 foot wide ... would the County refuse to take care of it? And I mean it was first platted... Mallard: I can't answer that because that question hasn't been broached that I know of. I mean we have some older roads that are out of compliance that we have. But they've been there for a long time and they haven't been upgraded either. So, I'd hate to start and have this road brought up just part of the way. I mean, let's try to get it where it needs to be. Hoosier: Well but I'm talking about money -wise. If we can throw together enough to get that much of it done and we can say we can get enough to do 25 foot wide. You know, put new culverts and everything in there and that stuff... because them culverts ... that one that's in there where the corner of it, the end of it is busted up.... Mallard: Uh -huh. (positive) Hoosier: ...the rest of that culvert isn't. You're talking about a long time before it gets busted out of there. Long time. That thing'll last a long time. Male: That's not the culvert. We're talking about the culvert down there where the creek is. It's on... Newton: It's rotten. Hoosier: Oh yeah. Yeah. But as far as the homeowners... Male: That culvert there was hit by a maintainer is how we got that. Hoosier: Right. But you're talking about other people coming in there and building and these contractors coming in there and building... Male: Uh -huh. (positive) Vol q 5 Page aoa 22 of 34 Hoosier: ...what the Homeowner's Association needs to do ... doesn't matter who it is ... if it's StyleCraft or T.C. Homes or whoever comes back in there to build another house ... they need to put up a deposit. Well they don't build the house... if they don't. Deike: How do you force them? It's public usage. Hoosier: You can file it ... not past that `Y' it's not. Mallard: It's actually a public easement. Hoosier: But you can still make them put a bond up before they come in there. If they tear any of that road up, they have to fix it to pass that bond. Deike: It's nobody's property. Nobody's. It's not ours. It's ain't private. Hoosier: Well I would sure look into that. Deike: It's not the County's. Because that's what we're being told. And it's not our property. But if we want to get to drive through it, we have to maintain it. And that's something, obviously, needs to be here for the future so someone else doesn't get stuck like that. But we'd like to see some kind of consideration on codes ... be it a smaller load. You know, the old standards of 1980 standard. You know, we're looking for a bone here. Something. Hoosier: If we can get close to getting that thing up to standard and everything, would the County pitch in a little bit and help with it? I mean would the County even just donate the culverts? Mallard: I'd like to be able to tell you that but we literally, by law, we can't make any decisions here. Hoosier: Right. Mallard: I mean we literally can't do that. So, a lot of folks are being quite because we can't. I mean we can't come in here and say, "Well, let's get three folks to say that... ", and then it's going to happen. Hoosier: Well when would yall be able to say something like that? Mallard: Well, I guess to have an agenda item on a regular meeting date and discuss at that time and it get's voted on ... yes or no. Once again, the biggest problem we have in making decision is how it's going to effect us with everybody else. Vol 5 Page ao3 23 of 34 Hoosier: I understand. Mallard: And so we have to weigh that ... it's not that we don't want help you ... because yall have got a tough situation. And that's why I've been involved in it, you know, because I think it is a problem and we if we can try to fix it ... what kind of compromise we feel we can live with ... I can't answer that. I mean that's something that we have to do some soul searching and recognize that this won't be the only time we hear this. Hoosier: Right. Mallard: If we do that for you, then there's... Hoosier: Well, we're not gonna tell anybody... Sims: No, but as soon as we do it, we'll have this room full of other land owners out there. Hoosier: I would really like for yall to try to consider some kind of help on it. Mallard: Yes sir. We had a new question. Sims: Yes ma'am. Quinlin: Yeah. My name is Cheryl Quinlin, and I don't know my address. We have land...just land on the outside of the loop. I thought it was a private owner that we purchased it from. I don't know what part of that... Mallard: Could we just get your mailing address, so we could ... it doesn't have to be... Quinlin: My mailing? Sims: Yeah. Mallard: Yes ma'am. Quinlin: Permanent mailing address? Mallard: Yes ma'am. Sims: Right. Vol q5 Page 96+ 24 of 34 Quinlin: 3203 Bahia, College Station, Texas 77845. That's where our homestead is. Mallard: Ok. Sims: Good. Quinlin: My question is, and it's a technical question... you're talking about ... and my husband is not here right now but what's the difference between and cost -wise a gravel road and a clear coat? Are talking a lot more money to clear coat it? A lot more money? Male: The man right behind you can tell you, he's... Arnold: This was a hundred and something thousand. Peters: Hundred and sixty thousand (inaudible) for seal coat. Arnold: Hundred and sixty thousand dollars (inaudible). Quinlin: Ok. Well, yeah, my husband and aren't prepared to pay $21,000.00 for roads. Newton: I don't think there's anybody in this room that... Quinlin: And you know, really, our land, the lien that you would put on our land would be worth more than what the land is on the books. Because it's not even on the books for $21,000.00. So I guess we really have to work this out and I'm probably not under any obligation to help... Mallard: Uh -huh. (positive) Quinlin: ...but I wanna me a good neighbor and we'd like to eventually build a house out there. So, you know, I don't know how many more on the outside of the loop but, you know, we would like to be included in these discussion because... Newton: Well you will be as landowners on this road. I mean it's... Quinlin: Ok. Yeah. Newton: This isn't an HOA issue at this point. It's a if you live on that road. Male: Right. Vol 95 Page a65 25 of 34 Male: Just to give everybody an idea ... the whole reason for this, because right now we're just continually paying dues to just maintain what we have. Newton: Uh -huh. (positive) Right. Male: And with just like the price of the road has gone up or doubled, the price of getting a maintainer out has doubled. Back in '03 we were paying like $350.00, $400.00 for a trip. Now it's $600.00 a trip if they don't spend extra time to cut the road, cut the washboard... you know. So if we do that three times a year, $1,800.00 bucks. You know, $2,000.00 a year just to keep a haphazard road where it's navigable. Female: And he has only been out there once this year. Male: Right. Newton: Well, not everybody on the road pays dues either. Female: That's right. Male: That's correct. Not everybody's obligated either. Female: Right. Male: That's another thing ... the only organization that's in place to contribute to the road is the Woodview which is inside the circle. Now others on the outside contribute on a voluntary basis. But just like you're going to run across the same problem of recouping those cost if the County had to take and absorb that cost to pave the road... well, the only recourse we have with the Homeowners Association is people decide not to pay dues is to file a lien against their house. If the never move out, we don't get any money. So we still get... Mallard: That's the same way with us. Sims: That's the same way with us. Female: I have a question; when this all comes to vote ... the vote, I guess, that was talking about the mailing out of the ballots or whatever... that's on this proposal that we received, the $21,000.00, right? So if that fails then we start all over with the new, "Hey, let's just do gravel. ", or, "Hey, let's just fix the culvert. ", sort of thing? Male: Well I don't think we are up to that point yet. (inaudible) vote on it yet. Vol G5 Page �)D L 26 of 34 Female: No, we're not even there yet. Ok. Male: We're just trying to figure out what the agenda needs to say. Male: What options (inaudible). Male: And that's the other question I'd have, I guess for Kenny, would be how formal does the item need to be to get on the agenda? So, if we put the item on the agenda, does it just need to be Woodview Road issue? Or, you know, how specific does the item need to be to get to a vote? You know. Do we need to have five different proposals of, you know, a twenty foot road, a twenty -five foot road, a twenty -eight foot road, up to twenty-eight ... you know. Mallard: I would say you want to get it as, you know, at least get your options or whatever you're looking for to get it on there so we'll be able to address that. Male: And the other question is how many, when do we get feedback from what the options from the County is going to be? You know? We come to you with a bringing it up to old standards. You know? When do we know whether we're going to get a waiver to do a 1980 standard? Or does that just need to be the first agenda item...? Mallard: You basically have to do it at the meeting. McLeod: So he would request a waiver is our subdivision regulations. Mallard: Uh -huh. (positive) McLeod: That's what he would be (inaudible) Male: Can we build that road up to 1980 standards? Male: Well that's what we're asking about. Male: Oh. Ok. Male: Can we ask for a waiver to the old standard? Mallard: I think so. Male: So we just need to submit for the agenda to get ... put it on the agenda for a waiver to older County standards and then from that point we have to get bids for that and then come to another Commissioner's Court or get it Vol a 5 Page 907 27 of 34 on the next agenda. (inaudible) Is that process or can we get several items in a row? Mallard: I don't know. Probably the best thing is maybe for you and someone else who is interested in ... we would go to Road and Bridge Department and visit with Gary Arnold and try to sit down and figure out the best way to take this and just try to visit about it. Male: I mean this is extremely complicated. Mallard: It is. Yeah. Male: And because we're not trying to commit anybody to a financial situation that's going to force them to move out of their house or lose money. We're just trying to get us into a situation where we don't run down ten years from now and we have to spend $30,000.00 or $50,000.00 a house... Mallard: It's not going to get you... Male: ...just to have a road. Because, you know, if you keep bladeing (overtalking)... Sims: The gravel goes away, doesn't it. Male: ...you end up with dust. Sims: Yeah. Male: You know, just... Mallard: I don't think you have a lot of gravel on there now. Male: There's a lot there, it's just... Female: All downhill. Male: All mushed in there. Mallard: It's getting closer to the creek. Female: Yeah. Vol q5 Page a- 0 8 28 of 34 Mallard: Yeah, it's not a simple solution and that's why I really appreciate the rest of the Court being willing to come together today to kind of hear the story and work through the process to... Male: When we will be able to go this meeting and do this? Mallard: Whenever we can set it up. The sooner the better. After the first week in July is over with, then we go into budget hearings and there's a lot of time taken on that. It takes three weeks for us to go ... that's what we have planned for that. So ... but if a couple of you want to get together and get together with Gary and we can start talking about it. Male: Like on the 1980 standards... what was the standard then for the width of that road? Arnold: I couldn't tell you but I can tell you right now that the County liability (inaudible) a road that's not going to be 22 foot wide driving surface is going to be... Sims: I know where you're coming from but I think you're going to be disappointed with that kind of a road out there. I mean, yall have nice homes out there. Ok? And I think you're going to be disappointed in something like that. And I understand dollars and cents. Male: Right. Sims: Man, I been down that road too and I didn't have two nickels to rub together. But I know you're going to be disappointed in it. Now how can we get it where everybody pays their fair share and get the road fixed the way it should be fixed where you don't have to drive off the side of the road when you're meeting a car coming in. Male: Right. Well the road that's there right now ... the part I was talking about a while ago... Sims: Uh -huh. (positive) Male: ...there's no part of that road right now that you would have to drive off in the ditch to pass somebody. Sims: Ok. Male: I don't know how wide ... have yall ever measured that? What it is right now? Vol q 5 Page 907. 29 of 34 Arnold: It's close to twenty -two foot. Male: It's got to be, at least. Arnold: But the thing is, it doesn't have the three foot on the side ... the shoulder fall off. Male: Right. Arnold: It doesn't have (inaudible). Mallard: Why don't we try to do that? We'll get together with a group of you here that want to meet. Meet if you want to. As many as we can fit into one room at the Road and Bridge to try to do that. Meet with Gary and try to come out, I know he's got a lot of questions and stuff. I guess we got one other question over there, Judge. Sims: Oh I'm sorry. Yes sir? Abbey: Brent Abbey 10080 Woodview. Everybody has expressed their concerns about this culvert that is about to fail and could fail any minute ... we've talked about in previous meeting that the transportation code allows the County to step on an emergency situation even though it's a public access /private road type situation. What's the County liability now if that thing fails and you have knowledge about it being in that kind of condition and not pitching in any help to get that fixed? Mallard: Basically it's private road and it's not a... Abbey: (inaudible) Sims: The land owners, the private road means the land owners that own property around that road are responsible for that road. Mallard: I'm sorry. I keep saying private road but that's incorrect... but it's basically not a County maintained road. So... Abbey: I understand that but we just pointed out that the transportation code, by law, allows the County to kick in some help. And I'm not trying to... Mallard: I understand. Abbey: ...force the commission into saying, "Ok. We're gonna pave it because we're scared something's gonna happen." But where does the County stand liability -wise if that thing does fail and a bad situation... you know, Vol 95 Page )-l0 30 of 34 whatever that may be ... somebody out there needs emergency services help and can't get it because the culvert has failed? Mallard: You know, I'm certainly not a attorney and usually those things are decided in the courtroom, but I don't know that the County has a liability issue on that. I don't think that they do but like I said, I'm not an attorney. Sims: Yes sir. Shirk: Bill Shirk. When I was in Florida, the Homeowners Association (inaudible) people ... so the idiots blocked the road and they couldn't get to the house, a guy died and they homeowners got sued. Mallard: I's fixing to say... Sims: I's fixing to say... Mallard: ...yeah, that's what... Sims: ...them homeowners probably, the homeowners are probably responsible. You know about it now. So you need to take care of it. Male: Well let me write a check. I'll take care of it. Mallard: Ok. Deike: Well there's one question I have and, you know, I looked at those plats and ... who owns that property? Who owns the property the road's on. It says `public access' but our property line stops short of it, the other side stops short of it ... who owns it? And that's the question I would want to raise. Sims: That is a good question. I would think that the developer... but he doesn't have any land out there so he is out of it. He's gone. Mallard: Doesn't the property line still run to the center of the road? Deike: No sir. Sims: No. Mallard: Just public easement. Deike: My mailbox is where my property ends. The state (inaudible) when I bought the land. Vol 9 5 Page �� 31 of 34 Mallard: Once again, that's a... Male: Public access somebody (inaudible) Deike: It seems to me it's not on my lot and it's not on the outside lot. So to me, it's not my property... Male: The County... Deike: ...if nobody in between has it... Female: Actually it's the banks property right now because we've all financed our homes out there. Deike: But what I'm saying is it's not. (overtalking) Deike: Our property is not part of that road. Our mailboxes (inaudible) that's not our property. Mallard: I can't answer that. Deike: And so... Male: Will the County tax records show that? Deike: Where did that (inaudible) Mallard: I don't know that ... it'll show the easement but I... Deike: (inaudible) back taxes. Mallard: ...I can't... Deike: There's a lot of money for you guys (inaudible). Mallard: Maybe to try to wrap it up a little bit ... yall want to try to get together for a ... a group of you want to try to get together and try to do it. Can you give me a card or something so I can call you and we'll try to do that. So ... and we'll get Mike to disseminate the information out to everybody. Male: I can look ... what the homeowners have to decide before they bother you again is, ok, are we gonna bite the bullet and pay the whole thing or Vol 96 Page e� I J\ 32 of 34 gravel it or just stop at the `Y'. Come up with three or four options before we bother you guys again... Sims: Right. Male: ...other wise we're wasting your time. Sims: And go far enough down that you catch that culvert by bringing it up to County standards that far. Male: Yeah, I mean this is our biggest problem here. (inaudible) pave the whole thing, gravel the whole thing, pave it to here, gravel it to here. We've got to come up with four options for you guys because we're asking you to do the impossible right now. Mallard: Right. Male: We're just shooting duck for nothing now. Sims: Yeah. (overtalking) Male: (inaudible) if the property line stops at their mailbox, wouldn't the developer still own that road? Sims: If the developer was still there. Male: But what of his trust? Sims: His what? Male: You have to have a trust. You have a trust. Mallard: That, that didn't... Sims: I don't know that. I can't answer that. Mallard: That didn't just ring true to me because then there would be individuals that own roads all over. So there's some ... I can't answer that. Male: Someone owns that property that the road is on. (inaudible) Vol q5 Page �� 3 33 of 34 Mallard: Not necessarily. (inaudible) Sims: He dedicated it to as a public right of way. Yeah. Arnold: It's not his. (inaudible) Mallard: Ok. Sims: Ok. Thank yall for coming, I think this has been beneficial to me, for sure. And beneficial, I'm sure, to the Commissioners. If you'll let Kenny call this next meeting, get together, and see what yall want to try to do. And then we will put it on the agenda of our Commissioner's Court meeting and then it will come to a vote as to what... we'll probably have more of this discussion but it will come to a vote and will be settled one way or the other. If that's all right with you. So I will adjourn this workshop meeting of the Commissioner's Court. Thank yall for coming. Vol 9 5 Page :P- 14 34 of 34 The foregoing minutes of the Commissioners Court Workshop held June 25th, 2007 have been examined and approved in open Court this the I�H— day of t, 20 0-7, in Bryan, Brazos County, Texas. Randy S County Duane Peters Commissioner, Precinct No. 2 Carey Ca ley, Jr. Commis s' oner, Precinct 4 Attest: Karen McQueen County Clerk Vol q 5 Page a 15 &' � 64c;:��- Lloycf Wassermann Commissioner, Precinct No. 1 Kenny Malla Commissioner, Precinct No. 3 Pg _L of _ BRAZOS COUNTY COMMISSIONER'S COURT ,Le- DAY OF 920 Q-2 5:,3o AM Name (PLEASE PRINT) i�511t,tl a -PnrnL Nu, 773\ - Organization (PLEASE PRINT) dnRE tLu den Is F- �I Pc�� �E '�nnII BRAZOSCOUNTY COMMISSIONER'S COURT ,�S DAY ( 5:3) Name (PLEASE PRINT) Div./! C-3r"RL-AJDD 3�V�e. �Oo<tS,Mi.7 i. ...,Mu -J i �■ Organization (PLEASE PRINT) ��Sioc'7J'T Res %�e�a � o_s � �. o rn•� �yQ� �wH-e- r q5 a►7 P Q 0f Q